W Sullivan to Have Dis· cussed Emotions "A former University 'of Montana stiident, v«**chartered ,, cedan operatorof California, and > clerical Sullivan. Who gUbly admitted that':he' had:manufactured a considerable amount of liquor in an Illicit still and peddled It ·wholefashion ; over a kngthy'period of time, was a surprise witness during^ the lafe afternoon session f of the trial of Harold. W. Vermllyes>-on-Saturday,..with a.voK able story that brought a hush to the-undertones of the packed court roam.'1 {old how he had carried on a conversation wtih Vermilyea in a jail cell -in '.Los.- Angeles: after pc4ntinsr-to-th~«cctised:ln-the"dock: as the man. Sullivan who freely admitted that "the more liquor a certain man sold he more he. himself, had made" had been lodged in the detention cell of the Jail at the same time CP)-- hat "^roldf-W. Vermilyea was -Jerter- being held for questioning. He described with an educated accent its talk with him In the ceil on the dayof October «..laat.^Wltneas had Jeea held In the cjell previous to a which~ transfer to a second one to begin a thirty day sentence' for. a breach ,,tHe International Revenue Act as Vresult of his arrest for making' liquor. ... . . " ; . ; Witness stated that wheirhe bad >e loss jeen lodged hi the cell" just after lis sentence he felt elated that a onger one had not been given him. faced five.:counts on__the .(indictment against him, and had ] got off light. "After I had entered I the cell this man whom I afterI ward found out was Vermilyea, told me that he would give ten thousand dollars if he could trade sentences with me." he related. Smoothly, yet so rapidly that counsel asked him" repeatedly to slow down, Sullivan continued! tVerbatlon report o f ; testimony of Sullivan in regard to a conversation he swore he had with the accused in the" cell at Los Angeles is given in columns 3 and 4 oh page one). .., · Two Hoars' Conversation -, Other things were talked of, during the two hour conversation he had.with his cell-mate, said SuHK van.- Much of It concerned "philosophies of life" - as expounded by the accused. Con"Greer, defence counsel, took the witness. " Q.--You were up on a charge which required dealing with a Federal court? A.--Yes. Q.--But you didn't go to a Federal prison, even though on that charge? (Continued on Pace 8, CoL 6) icily for s recovr around :ar went on -irte 8 miles imbleton nd head General rd. OnU !iftiter Of ngers in t. The the left Ving the !e of the und and !jck H't« frstf GEHTfiS STARTINN.Y. Elevators -in Heart Garmcyt Centre of "a Evidence given' by John -Sullivan 'of '.,wh*| Tf/ of California, on Saturday after- lies underneath, i He said w»: af* *· iir'i GEORGE HAMBIJrrON « shot noon a* a witness for the Crown In passing'through primitive days *>nd ; Canadian Press Staff Writer OH t the Vermilyea murder case as it re- still'.have primitive emotions., KB Utet to a conversation he had with says under lie policy civilization hM : tendon, Feb. 18-- (CI* Cab!?) -- of U an inmate of the · detention cell given us we- «UU have some qunll« in Log Angetea jaU, Whom no iden- ties of greed and cruelty and Just The govemnenfc^oday" anttouneed ^Jflea W eourt AJ 'Hwow Venftflye*; thai" Ji*ve gripped the .human"race apprtntment -of TTTOynl -commisslori heav nou was .in part as follows:'TM j~r* , since It was ; » race. He .laid 1 wrt manufacture of arms." ·. Q,'What did yeu talk about? A. I not t criminal, I hira nsver be& usSii^of Sir 'DC asked the man how he .would like to la any.trouble before. He said It John HdenBankes, chairman ;J3ir Shct trade his sentence-for,mine. I had is not .what you have been, It ,4* 'already received mine and asked what is-tnstde of you. He/said 4f Thomas Allenr"DarHe7Rachel Crow- HU£l 1 him .how he.would Jlke.to trade. . O.-Cutteridge, Sir,; Ken- cent. you - ever We-,* fellow and took at Q; Did he make any answer? A. him and""think; you-so«i-jotar-,--, I neth Lw and iT. A?rSperiddf. ? >' grou He told me. he would . be glad to would like to take a club and beat IU .appointment* 6 .enquire Into 'or ' trade and give nie $10,000.. --«--^ · yOu¥~5rains out , " Q. Did you go on talking after . Go on from there?-A; Weft. I th* case for- stat« ', manufacture of Divthat? Just go · ahead as?you . re- said whatever prompted you. you armaments follows "promises' in the ide member the conversation? "ArT said certainly wound up in » pretty bad House, that were made after .revef~; T! thai bow would you like to trade your position. It seems to me your only sentence for mine: 'he said .1 would possible way out is to try to prove atlons during the Senalo Munitions pol-: Probe in Washington, in which the eco be willing to give you $10.000. I said you are Insane. · r*-« what are you being held. for. He said ·I said sometimes they get - Dy names of British firms were men-_ liari ^ . _ _ with-thaMn--these-courts-and you tk»ed~-- -- ~, ->~TM^-:--T-.--;--SSUl what is it, government reservation? might get by with iUHe said I hare He-said I am being held for extra- been-a success all my life, and I N« .Terror of Reference dition to Canada., I. said did you will fight this thing to the end. tics The commission's^ jfirms of ref- new shoot a man. The prisoner said yes. He said they have not got me beat I said well you should have got. him yet.-We talked about conditions 'in erence are as follows:^_____· abrf in Michigan instead of Canada be- the county gaol until the Deputy 1. To consider and report \ipcr. ate cause I · said in Canada they .will came to transfer me to the Alham- the practicability^ , desirability, tick ve you very quick'actign. I lived 1 .both frnm-a natlnnal-land-lnterpaj, .rajl tint aiaUi gaol. * .ere for a .year and that is the tlonal' point of view. Of-'the adopreputation they- have. He said "do Q. How tang were you together on tion (A) byvthe.Onited,'..Kipg*3ia liun '. . v you .think they .could convict a man this interview? would -sf«r approjcimateTyJwb 'alone -and (B'r by the United" KingULtliere:;wa4.no._eyelwitn«Blto,tht "A:-I -"!-. --r--*-. . dom-In-conjunction--with---other occurrence. .1 said weU«-U depends cpttntrtes of "the"wofia7 of a"prbhiya. the circumstances, of course and Mtlon of the private. manufacture tun the evidence,brought as to whether of and trade in arms and anmnL- Stn or not theJury; would find .the Ynan tions of'war, and the-institution-of hol< guilty. He said'would they hang a state monopoly of such manufac- the you withno eye witness.- I said that cen ture and traffic; Is also problematical. I said, if you 2. To consider and report wheth- bai have no alibi for the period of time er there are- steps- whteh_can use- seci they might tie you up with it, they to study - prohibition of the pftvale by will probably convict you. I said the mize the kinds of . objections have you an alibi for this time. He said no. Well, I said when were you 4 Jurors Suffering From which private manufacture" is^stat- nft. ed in article eight of the .League of clsi arrested. He jsaid Saturday. I said Mild Contagion of Uti! Nation's covenant to be open to; here? He said yes. < 3. To examine .the present ar- sto* Colds I said what "time did the affair mo take place? He said Thursday. I Through the illness of four jur- rangements in force in the United said it looks to me as If it was an ors, confined to their hotel through Kingdom relative to the control of iy adequate alibi, but I said you could Influenza, court in the hearing of the .export trade in arms and muni- $2 not make connection between the the trial of Harold W. Vermilyea was tions^ of war and to report whether list two points In that time. He said it adjourned on Monday morning fully be taken to remove" orTntr.i- 1 mu is no good. He said you can take until Tuesday morning at 9.30 and if so. in what,direction. . _ _JWhen_Prime--.Minister ,, Ramsay act a plane in Jersey in the aftemoon. Throughout the past few days one MacDonald announced completior and be In Los Angeles the following morning. I said did you get drunk of the Jurors on the case had been of the commission,In the House of and shoot him or get In a fight suffering from the effects of a heavy Commons tday rnembers_ presstxi St< no He said I did not do elther/he said cold. This.litej was stated by the for further particulars. the Latin race are prone to crimes medical officer In attendance to Sir Herbert Samuel. LibenvTon- SH and passion due to their tempera- have developed Into a mild case of pccltlon leader, asked: "Will the Wi ment. He said I have never let my Influenza. Precautions were taken, commission liave power to tat; tio cb1 emotions bother my Judgment. He however; and under the ministra- evidence on oath?' said I considered this matter for tions of the physician -in attend- · The Prime Minister "replied" exweeks before I did it. He told me ance, the juror, was., enabled to sit cept in special occasions no powar that emphatically. He said I con- through the. past few day's hearings was given to a royal commission to me sidered the possibility of punish little Inconvenienced by the'illness, cal levidence on oath. But If the trf ment against the possibility of except for the fact that on the chairmaji found any impediment award, and he said I considered 1 doctor's orders ,a coat was worn. owing to the fact he could not ad- wr mi i'as_justlfiedJri-taklng-the-£tep6-I minister-the oath-ha--had-only_lo Tr took. He said, do you believe I could his v.. . . were made by Mr. Justice appeal." . . ."' · 110 consider this matter for weeks and Jeffrey. Over the week-end., the mild conmake an error in my final conclusion. I said that Is something that tagion had spread to four other to lies--entirely in your own mind, I jurors, one of which was confined to Su would not know. I said if you had his bed on Saturday night. The replenty of time to consider this and maining three had merely suffered think It-over why'didn't you pro- the effects of a touch of the Illness. Or vlde_yourself with an alibi, Ho-mid- C&urt was adjourned on Monday, Ch well. I will tell you I did not do this howevert In order to give the men for myself, I did this for a woman time to \ecover from their Indispoda who Is not my wife, but she Is prob- sition unUer_the_doctor's care. The names of the jurors'who are ably as dear to me as any woman could be even if she were my'wife. ill, were withheld upon the request Retailers Told by PresiHe said, She loves me and I love of the Sheriff. dent of Shoe Manufacher, and she Is very fond of the turers' Association children and the children are fond of her. He said a while ago I was Toronto, Feb. 18--(CP)--Sharp talking with my daughter and niy Increases in prices of raw material daughter told me if she had her accompanied by higher prices for In choice of mothers she would select manufactured goods will come like- 1C thl« woman to be her mother. He ly in the next few months, Presid- en said don't y<Vi think that any sacent W. Gagnon of the Shoe Man- Wi rifice I could make for a person I Washinjlon. Feb. 18 (AP)-- "Pay ufa^tiirfirE 1 jsjssociatlan af Carjadft i U',! Report WillTM^ Made TM N - - on- Advisability of .~ · -_:..'y. · Actiott /; -.v./- : '- . IRKDELAYED DAY BY Pay as You Fight Policy Advocated By Committee