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------------------ OSH/ WA MEMBER GETS GOOD SUPPORT PLAN FOR COAL Wins Government Favo. ~ for the Thorough Study of | Schemes for Converting Coal Into Crude Qil -- Hon. Charles Stewart En. dorses Proposal The following lext (from Hansard) of Dp, Kals- as speech in the House of Com- mons on the subject of lquefac- don of coal and also of the reply »t Hon, Chas, Stewart, Minister of he Interior: . Mr. T. BE, Kaiser (Ontario) mov. sd: "That, in the opinion of this wuse, the government of the Do- ninion of Canada should immeqi- stely initiate such measures and 'ake such other steps as may be 1ecessary to bring about the utili- mation and transport of our vast leposits of lignite and bitumin- us coal, by their conversion into srude oil and other valuable com- modities of every day life," He said: Mr, Speaker, the sub- ject of this resolution is attracting a great deal of attention mot only of the people of Canada who hap- pen to have been studying it, but also those of other countries, It seems to me fitting on my part to say that I have been interested im this subject more or less for a number of years, having some twenty years ago assoclated my. self with the undertaking of pro- ducing gas iv the city of Osh- awa, That association induced me to make a study of the chemigtry of coal, During recent years, es- pecially the last twelve months, certain matters brought to the at- tention of the people of Canada have aroused a tremendous inter- est in the subject. In order that we may visualize our interests in it as Canadiap people I would draw the attention of the house to certain facts which confront me, In the first place the Dominion of Canada have a deposit of 1,250 billion tons of coal. This is a tre- mendous figure, In 1890 a com- mission in England undertook to investigate the quantity of coal there was in England and it found that there was a deposit of 100 billion tons of coal in that country, sv that for every ton of coal that England ever possessed the Domin- fon of Canada cap lay down twelve and one-half tons. From sixteen to twenty per cent of the coal of the world is contained within Can- ada, That is a tremendous thought, The next thought is that we im- port 480 waillion gallons of oll and 58 million gallons of gasoline per annum, What have we in the way of production in this dominion? For every 100 barrels of oil used in this country only one is pro- duced here, The next thouzht that impels me to say something on ui subject is that, in spite of all that we may say there is coming over 'Canada 'and the United Stules a ' great change in the method of heating our houses in the eities and in regard to the general con- sumption of coal. The use of fuel oil is a mattér that commands our attention. 1 find, that about seven per cent of the heating of Toronto is by oil and oil furnaces. Mr. Taylor, the head of the coal industry of the I'nited ' States, has plaged himself on rec- ord in this regard, that for heat- ing purposes in that country oil has taken the place of coal to such an extent that in ose year, 1925, it has displaced 200 million tons of coal. We are therefore confronted with the increcsing use of fue] oil, its convenience and 1ts fascinating features, and with the fact that we have very little of it 'n Canada. Let us look at this matter from nother point of view. "We com- plain of so much eoal being im- ported from the United States, It 's not the coal that we object to; it ig the fact that it costs us $216,- 000,000; that we wish to restore the balance of trade by using our own coal, and that from a senti- mental point of view we would prefer to use our own. But we are not making any headway to- wards a balance of trade if we J ns pd |G (0) ) Service-- TORONTO HAMILTON BRANTFORD WALKERVILLE WINDSOR em DIM DETROIT Hill = Mover 369 Spadina Ase. Toronto Tr. 0230 is the complete for instance, | CONVERSION fe | DR. T. E, KAISER, M.P. simply change from the consump- tion of coal to the consumption of oil, it the oil comes from the Unit. ed States of Awmerlea. In 1927 metallurgical congress was held in this Dominion, and among the wen who came here was Sir Robert Horn who told us that the British Empire uses 11 million tons of oil a year. He glso said that the whole empire produced only 4 'million tous of oil and that we de- pended upon other countries for the remaining 8 million tons of oil per annum. He along with Sir | Richard Redmayne pointed ont that within the Dominion of Can-; won- | ada we had deposits, vast, derful, beyond all measure, from whieh possibly the oil used in the British Empire might be found in the future. Let me come now to another point, 1 agree with a' great deal of what has been said with regard to research, hut I would point out that as regards the matter which iI am trying to discuss the world "has passed the per'od of research, , We are .not discussing to-night something that is vet to he discov- ered; we are going to confine onr atientijon for a few moments to something that ig already found. the matter i but of the application of ledge which has been evolved hy ollier people in other parts of the world. 1p 1026 at Pittsburgh the ongress of bituminous eoal peo- ple gathered and a German named Frederick Burgius appeared upon the seene, who read a paper en- titled "The liquefaction and hydro- genation of coal." This paper at- tracted the attention of the seien- | titie world and today his state- ments and findings are matters of world interest, Tn 1921 he again came to Canada and patent for a process which he had evolved. In 1023 he again came to Canada and took out another potent. 1da onee more and took out a third patent. This patent was wity re- card to processes whieh he had cvolved and the details of which ie announced in Pittshurgh in No- vember, 1926. TI am not prepared ,to say that the findings of Durszius constitute the last word in the evo- (lution of this great question, but | I am prepared to say that what "rederiek Burgins discovered and what he evolved i8 a matter of first-rate, vast importance to this land every other country. If I am mistaken in saying that---and I might be---my mistake is shared | by some very practical and import- rant people. Js it not marvellous to think that the Standard Oil Company of New Jersey, manazed by probably the best and astute business men in the I'nited States, should have gone to Ger- many and purchased from Burgins coal in the whole of the United States? It is a marvellous thing that Germany should have backed this process with $500,000 the first year, increasing the amount year by year; it is a marvellous thing if the best business minds of England bave been deceived in this matter, because in writing to Burgius and asking certain details in regard to this process, he re- ferred me to a syndicate in Eng- land known as the British Bur- glus Syndicate, which hought the 'patent right to produce oil from jcoal in the whole of the British | Empire. 1 was curious to learn !who was at the back of this par- , ticular move in England. A friend of mine ip London sent me the {prospectus of the company which has taken over these patents and {now holds them for the Dominjon jof Cavada, and I find that the jcompauy is capitalized at $275,- 1000,000, so there is something | substantial in it. At the head of {the company is Right Hon. Sir Alfred Mond, who is well known I Canada ard who .; regarded as 'a first class business man all over the world. Associated with him are such men as Sir Harry Me- Gowau, Right Hon. Lord Ashfield, Sir Jobm Brunner, a name well known in business cireles, the Mar- quis of Reading, P.C., CNO., GMEL, GMILE., and others; =o it will be seep that lead- ing business men of the British + mpire are beh'nd this process. I would like to say just a word or two in regard to the process it- self. For a great number of years chemists, have been endeavouring to produce oil out of coal by what is commonly called the breaking- down process, but this map Bur- gius got it in his mind that this end could be attained by a syn- thetic method. A ton of eoa) was found to consist of sixteen parts of carbon to one part of hydro- gen. while oil conpsisté of eight parts of carbon to one part of hydrogen 01 scientists under- took to reduce the carbon content, er al one not of research | know: | ohtained no | In 1926 he came to (lan- | most | the right to manufacture oil from | G.C.B., G. | THE OSHAWA DAILY TIMES, SATURDAY, FEBRUARY 25, 128 but Burglus injected hydrogen and raised the hydrogen comtent to produce the oil in this way, and he succeeded to the extent of hav- ing his process backed by millions of dollars in Germany. He now has a plant in that country which is expected to turn out this year 100,000,000 gallons of crude oil, which will then be put through the distillation process. It has !been found that a quantity of coal Bl suitable to this process will pro- {duce 30 per cent of gasoline, 30 per cent of fuel oil, 30 per cent of lubricating oil. and will leave a residue of omly 10 per cent. The statement points out that this pro- cess will apply to any kind of coal 'except anthracite, but it has a par- | tioular application to lignite, and he has found that in putting even lignite coal through his process there are many varieties of that class of coal which require minor changes in the process. ' 1 suppose technical details would be wearisome at this time of night, but IT do say that it strikes me as wrong that anyone outside of Can- ada should secure a patent which will tie up some of the natural re- sources of this country and pre- vent the application thereto of our owp genius #and talent. 1 claim that in this case the gov- ernment should have an option on this particular process, because if it turns out in the way anticipat- ed it will have a tremendous ap- plication in this country. We should look upon our natural re- sources as assets to he developed --1 believe the ceo! of Canada are getting a little tired of hear. ing politicians speak of our great resources, and so on, ad libitum. We should undertake to do some- thing with those resources. Mr. Speaker: Tt is now eleven o'clock. The hou. gentlemen will retain his position on the next pri- vate members' day. The house resumed from Mon. day, February 13, consideration { of proposed motion of Mr. Kaiser: | "That, in the opinion of this | house, the government of the Do- { minion of Canada should immedi- | ately initiate such measures and | take such other steps as nray be | necessary to bring about the utili zation and transport of our vast | deposits of lignite and bituminous | coal, by their conversion into | erude oil and other valuable com- modities of every day life." Mr. T. E, Kalser (Ontario): Mr. apeaker, when 1 was interrupted [on Monday night hy the applica- | tion of the eleven o'clock rule, IT was ahout to discuss the second part of my resolution as to what | we might expect the government to de, and do immediately, in ae- cordance with the resolution. 1 would suggest in the first place that the government obtain a few hundred copies of the original re- | port as delivered hy Frederick Ber- | glug in Pittsburgh, in order that every member of the House of Commons and others who are in- i terested ip this subject might re- | ceive some hasie information. The second suggestion I have {to offer Is this, that the goversn- | ment shonld endeavonr to arrange | with the university of Birmingham where there are two Professors, Profegsor Skinner and Professor Graham, who have the technique and the equipment, for carvying on investigational work and the analygis of coal such as [ have suggested. These gentlemen have given reports in regard to hund- reds of analyses of hundreds of varieties of coal for England and the British Empire, and I have under my hand one report of their finding in regard to aoal shale from Anstralin. They have found some coals that lend themselves very readily to this process; they have found other specimens which are not in that class. At the be- ginning of this undertaking ft is i necessary for us to know whether ! we possess in the Do- the coals { minion of Canada, both in Nova | Scotia and Alberta, are of such a | character as will lend themselves to the process under discussion. 1 Thig cap be discovered only by our having analysis made by men with the requisite equipment who will give us the results. [I find that | these university professors, in or- Ider to carry out this work, de- mand that a specimen of one hun- dred pounds each be sent to them. {If we were to send them two or three hundred specimens of coal of one hundred pounds each, this would be inexpensive and we would be able to get a great deal {of information. Along with that {I would ask the government to {have Doctor Tory select a few of | the young men of our country, who bave devoted a large portion of their lives to subjects of this kind, who would go to England and be paid for thejr time in or- der that they might equip them- selves scientifically and technically for the solution of this and other problems which confront Canada. The next thing that I would sug- gest is that we should endeavour, if possible, to get mrep like Shat- well, Graham, or Skipner in the old country who, in the summer, exchange lectures with professors in other universities, to come to the university of Saskatoon and there set up an equipment for the analysis of this coal so that they may give us the result of their | findings in that way. I should like to refer for a few | moments to statements made by | some of the great men of this couniry and of England ip regard to what I bave been discussing. In matters of this kind I am guid- ed, as the house should be guided, only by the opinion of men who are in a position to give expert advice and whose statements may be relied upon. In the first place I would draw the attention of the {house to a few words contained {in the report of Professor Graham {and Professor Skinner. who are at the head of the mining research laboratory of the university of Birmingham and who bave analy- | zed hundreds of specimens of coal for the purpose of ascertaining what can he produced under the HON. CHAS. STEWART, M.P. Minister of the Interior. (OAL 1S MORE THAN A FUEL (Editorial in Toronto Star) Dr. Kaiser, M.P,, proposes In parliament that every effort be made by the Canadian government to learn all that can be known about the most modern process of liquifying coal and that it be made use of, as quickly as possible, in connection with the coal supplies of this country. Hon, Charles Stew- art assures Dr. Kaiser that a close watch is being kept on the success that attends the application of this new process in Europe. As human inventiveness proceeds from one achievement to another it may turn out that one of this coun- try's greatest seeming disadvantag- es was a blessing In disguise. Lur coal heds are a long way from the chief centres of our home market, and that fact, long lamented as a serious handicap, conserves the supply until, the more enlightened tinre when the direct burning of coal as a fuel will he considered a serious waste, Coal is rich in oils and chemicals too valuable to be consumed in flame and thrown on the atmosphere in the form of smoke. For years in England cer- tain writers on economics and fore- most among them Sir Chiozza Mon- ey, have heen Inveighing against { the -colossal waste of it and urging that British coal be not burnt hy | crude methods, but used seientifi- cally go that it would yield not only | its heat but by-products more value able than heat itself. It is possible, therefore, that the very misfortune of the remoteness of our coal fields from our centres of manufacture, may i, the end prove to he the hest thing that could have happened, and great in- dustries may arise based on coal, not as a fuel, but as a highly valu- able raw material. Bergius process. this: "With coals of the class refer- red to ahove, the process could pos- gibly he worked at the present time with profit. The annual out- put of such coals is sufficient to supply the greater hulk of the present day fuel oil requirements of this country." I would draw attention also to the finding of Mr. H. G. Shatwell who was sent by the British coal syndicate to the Berging plants in Germany to investigate and to come back to the British govern. ment ond the British syndicate with a report of what he had dis- covered, The details of the report are tremendous and I wish to draw the attention of the house te the conclusion of this scientific gen- tleman, He states: "The system of hydrogenation proposed by Bergius, therefore, dispensipg as it does with cata- lysts and employing reactants which in no sense of the word are pure and are not even chemical entities, opens up a new avenue both for selentific research and for commercial exploitations; and there is little question that its ad- option on a large scale is only a matter of time." Following that up let me give the house an opinion taken from the London Times of December, 1927, of Mr. Frank Hodges, who will tell us who he is. Mr. Hodges Bays: "As a member of the national fuel and power committee I am able to review the whole range of research and achievement of both our engineers and our chemists. J ean therefore say that steam- raising from pulverized coal has passed into conventional and prof- itable use. It will soon pass from use on land to use on the high seas. "Next year we shall see com- mercial plants in operation in Britain which will make a frontal attack upon the system of imports of fuel in the form of oil from foreign countries whilst our own men suffer acute poverty and dis- tress. We shall witness the pro- duction of oil from coal of such quality and constituents as to re- sult in Diesel oil, lubricating ofl, and fuel oil being made available from ti. much-despised "black diamond." Their finding is Such is the opinion of eminent scientists in England and abroad. Let us come now a little closer home. We have in the employ of this government a gentleman whose views on questions of such as this command the respect of the whole people of Canada; I refer to Dr. Adam Short. I assume that he at least knows what he is talk- ing about, and ip addressing meeting in my city on the Sth of December last he said: "The progress of science is as rapid as it is astonishing. In Ger- many particularly processes for extracting gasoline from lig- nite coal are making rapid strides. In the past 12 months they have manufactured 100,000 tons of gasoline by these new methods and are now equipped lo extract 400. 000 tons in the next 18 mouths. The price is being reduced and 'the Burgius process it has been there is mo predictiag ho far it is yet to the bottoms. "What does this mean hut wom- derful progress for the 4anadian West? There are enormois quan- tities of lignite in. Albes'a. So far it cannot be transported eco- nomically because it deteriorates in quality after mining so that a binder has to be used. "But if it can be turned to gaso- line and its by-products used, the fuel problem of Canada will be solved." I ask the people of Canada. if they feel that I am not as com- versant with this subject as I should be, to pay attention at least to the statements of men of such high standing as I have quoted. There is one other point. In found that the great expense is in the production of hydrogen. Af- ter this question came up, a num- ber of men in the city of Toronto undertook to see what could be done in that regard, and a gentle. man by the name of Stewart an- nounced that he had just com- pleted a process by which the cost of producing hydrogen could be reduced by over fifty per cent, and the very nest day Professor Mc- Lennan of Toronto university, a gentleman to whom we pay three or four thousand dollars a year, sald that he had looked into this man's process and found that ft was absolutely correct. Now if Canadian genius has beep able to devise a process whereby the cost of producing hydrogen is reduced | by over fifty per cent, what may not happen in the next few years in connection with the problem of utilizing in a practical manner our vast deposits of lignite and bitu- minous coal? Y belleve that the genius of this country is equal to that of any other country in the world. When I think of the won- derful advances that have been made in this country, of those vast prairies whieh at one time looked as dead to me as the lig» nite coals of Alberta, when I re- wember that It was the genius of Professor Saunders that evolve ed a new type of wheat, a discov ery that laid the foundation of the great wealth of those prairie prov. inces today, I regret as a Cana- four of these experiments that I do not for a moment that they As ed on a large scale at Leuna, where there are special facilities for its completion on a commercial basis, Indeed, sclentific research there has at its disposal every ald that is humanly possible. - An al- are being manufactured from coal, and one is amazed at the output of that huge plant which, at the time of my visit employed 28,000 workmen. Through the courtesy of Dr. Streseman, whom I met at Geneva, I think it may b: sald that we who went from Canada were the first representatives of any nation who were admitted :o the interior of that plant and shown its operations in detail. We had, therefore, a splendid oppor- tunity to note exactly what was being done, and one was struck with the immensity of the work carried on as well as with the vast extent of experimentation. If I remember correctly there are 12,- most innumerable variety of things | 000 chemists employed ia or are being carried on. suggest have yet emerged from the experi- mental stage, notwithstanding the fact that in Germany they have spent a great deal of money. my hon. friend has well said, Dr. Bergius has devoted over fifteen years of his life to experimenta- tion in this important field with German coal and has attained a very appreciable degree of success. The experiment is being conduct- stitution alone. Hvery depart ment has at its command the ser- vices of an expert chemist in the particular line im which it is en- gaged. Perhaps it is mot import- ant, but theifact is interesting at any rate, and they collect all the precious gems that come from the coal. My hon. friend expressed the opinion that we had mo idea of the pessibilities in a matter of this kind, and I may tell him how astonished I was to discover that they were able to obtain gems for rings. 1 brought one home with me, recovered from the electrical ovens which were used fin the operations of the plant. The plant (Continued on page 10) dian, as I did last summer when 1 went across Canada from the Atlantic to the Pacific and view- ed many of the monuments to (the soldiers and eminent men In the history of this Dominion, that right at the gateway to the prairies there is not erected a monument to the memory of Professor Sauns: ders, I think it would be very fitting to commemorate his workl in that way to show to the world that there are victories of peace that are greater than the een quests of war, I belleve that we are just awaiting such touches as have already come to us to make these lignites give up thelr secret, to the immense benefit of the peo- ple of Canada and the people of the whole world. We are simply the trustees for this tremendously valuable asset ,and we shall be judged by future generations by the manner in which we discharge our trust. We should enlist the brains and energy and enterprise of the people of Canade to help solve such problems as these, and I believe that we are on the verge of a complete solution vot only of this question but also of our fuel problem in central Canada. My time is about up. I propose to leave this matter absolutely In the hands of the government, | was glad to know .that the Minis ter of the Interior (Mr. Stewart) on his trip to Europe last sum-' mer did make an investigation fn- to this question, and I hope he wip give the house the benefit of what, ever be has learned in that regard, I did see one statement that he made at the time, and that was that the department of the gov- ernment was equipped and ready to handle this question, It is pot 80 equipped, Mr. Speaker, but ft should be equipped, and should look into this problem In a sen- sible way. Let us investigate this question and make sure we are right before committing ourselves to a large investment, and then ) believe that future generations will bless us for having given these great questions the study! they deserve. | Hon. Charles Stewart (Minister | of the Interior): I need hardly as sure the house that I am as much interested in the resolution sub mitted today as I was in that pro- posed by the hon. member for Bow River (Mr. Garland) with re- ference to scientific and industrial research, Indeed, they go pretty much hand in hand. I have, how- ever, this additional interest in the present resolution, that {it 1 was my privilege this summer to! make 2 speoial investigation or ' the very matter herein proposed. . Part of my mission on the contin ent this year had a direct bearing on this subject, apart from a rath- er interesting week or two which / I spent at Geneva listening to the deliberations of the delegates se: sembled in the League of Nations. And in passing, Mr. Speaker, may I observe that the discussions there were exceedingly interest- | ing and I am confident, after that visit, that a great deal of good wil) result from the efforts of the lea- | gue. However, I do not pro to say anything in that regard to- day. What I want particularly to discuss mow is that aspect of my mission which was of greatest in- terest to me because of the en- thusiasm it created, especially in view of the report referred to by the hon. member for Ontario (Mr. Kaiger)-~the report of Dr. Ber guis to the convention of sclenti- atic experts at Pittsburgh respect- ing the liguefaction of coal. I will not g 80 far as my hoo. | friend from Winnipeg North Cen- | tre (Mr. Woodsworth) and sug-, gest that we can immediately do: something in this direction to ob- viate the necessity of moving our coal. We shall stil] be obliged 1. : consider rates in order if possible : to bring coal from the west snd the east to central Canada. 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