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Shop In Oshawa and Help Build Up the Town The Ontario Reformer All the News Whale it Is News VOLUME 51--No. 84 Published at Oshawa, Ont., Canada Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday OSHAWA, ONTARIO, THURSDAY, OCTOBER 19, 1922 Yearly Subscription $3.00 Single Copjes 5 Cents TWELVE PAGES Children Persistently Steal Rides on Trains Of Oshawa Railway Such Is Evidence of Members "of Crew of Shunter Which Struck and Killed Little Alfred Murray on Monday Afternoon CAUSE ANXIETY TO THE EMPLOYEES Doctor Testifies Post Mortem Showed Death of Lad Was Due to Shock Occasioned By Injur- ies--Inquiry Adjourned Until To-morrow Night After several of the Oshawa Street railway had given evidence, the in- quest which opened on Tuesday eve- ning into the death of Alfred J. Mur- ray, son of William and Mrs. Mur- ray, 563 Albert Street, who was fa. tally injured when struck by an elec- tric shunter on Monday afternoon, was adjourned until Friday evening. Owing to the fact that none of the railway employes saw the acci- dent no details as to how the child actually met his death, or where, were offered on Tuesday night. The small boy who was with little Alfred when he met his death was not cal- led. The Polish woman who picked the lad up following the sad occur rence was not asked to téstify. She will, of course, be called at the re- sumption of the hearing on Friday night. During the course of the inquiry evidence was brought out that it was a common practice of boys and even young girls to steal rides on the shunter. Time and again the em ployes of the railway had warned the children. An official of the com- pany also announced that despite the strenuous efforts of the company to keep people off the railway right- of-way, it was practically impos- sible to do go. Signs warning people to stay off the tracks had been either broken or stolen. From now on the company will prosecute vigorously all persons who are found trespass- ing, on its property. Death due to Shock. Dr. Grant Bird, physician who conducted the post mortem, was the first called. He stated that the lads death was due to shock occasioned by the terrible injuries to the lower extremities. J. St. Andrews, who was described as the engineer of the shunter, was then placed on the stand. "How long was it after the acci- dent that you heard of the accident " Crown Attorney Farewell queried. "About 40 minutes," witness re- sponded." I heard of it from the conductor." "ls that the usual procedure of this company? Do you never hear of accidents until an hour or so has elapsed?" The crown asked. "WwW. E. N. Sinclair, K.C. represent ing the company, objected to this mode of cross examination. "Did you see two small boys any- where near the tracks?" witness was asked. "No Sir." "Is there anything in the rules of the company which states that em- ployes must watch for people on the tracks "Yes, sir." "Have you ever looked for chil- dren?" Bell Was Ringing One Portable School Is Now Being Used Part time classes in Osha- wa Public Schools will soon be at an end, Mr. A, E, Gar- butt, Supervising Principal, stated yesterday afternoon in speaking to The Reformer, The portable at King Street School was used for the first time yesterday morning, eigh- ty scholars being transferred from the main building. One room of the portable is being used for first and second book classes, while the other room will be ocupied by a junior fourth class. Some time dgo part time classes in Albert Street School were stopped when St. George's Hall was secured, At Mary Street School, however, part time classes will be continued until the new portable at the High School is completed. One room of this building will be used for High School purpos- es while the other room will be used to relieve the congestion "Y" CAMPAIGNERS GET 208 MEMBERS But This Is Less Than Half of Objective of 700 -- RENEW EFFORTS TODAY "Go Getters" Team Is Leading Over "Speed Fiends" By 44 When the second aay of the Y,. M C. A. membership campaign closed last night 298 new members had been secured which is a little less than one-half of the objective of 700 members. But the workers, fully cognizant of the fact that much hard work remains to he done if ultimate success is to be attained, are today out to secure every available mem- ber who has not yet been approach ed in order that the Y.M.C.A. shall continue to he a living and vital fac- tor in Oshawa's growth. It is-urg- ent that citizens who have the Y. M. C. A. work at heart should rally to the support of the campaign work- ers and see that the example of those who have already taken out a mem- WARM CLOTHING ED URGENTLY N Cold Spell Makes Living in Tents Almost Impossible in North Because of the fact that they are rendered homeless and have of ne- cessity taken up temporary resi- dences in tents and old street cars, the citizens of the northern fire visited area need plenty of warm clothing. While the response to the appeal has been gratifying in the town of Oshawa, and, in fact, throughout the Dominion there will be no lessening in the activities of the Red Cross for some time to come, because as winter approaches the plight of the Northerners grows worse. Those who have not yet contributed money, or clothing, possibly because of the lack of time or forgetiulness, should act immediately. "Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethern ye have done it unto me," we are told in St. Matthew 25,40. Mrs. F. W. Cowan, president local branch of the Red Cross, announced this morning that the National bedy would institute in the near future a campaign to procure toys and other gifts to be sent to the chil- dren of the Northland at Christ mastide. COMING EVENTS | KING STREET LADIES' AID WILL | hold their Annual Bazaar on Thursday, Nov. 30th. 84-a | SONS OF ENGLAND WHIST DRIVE bership realizing the value of this institution in the community, shall not pass unrecognized. Not Enough Young Members The campaign workers, however, realize that, 'having put their hands to the plow there must be no turning back' and by tonight are determined that the total number of members will be secured. At thé meeting fol- lowing the banquet last night those | who had met with the greatest suc-| cess were called upon to offer sug-| gestions. The keynote of the ad- dresses which followed was that not enough members were being secured from the Public Schools of the town Mr. W. H. Hall, president of the Y.| M. C. A., stated that a large number | of prospective members had never been approached and that by enter- ing into the campaign with, increas- ed enthusiasm, they would have no reason to be ashamed of their ef INTWO DAY 'DRIVE* Lends a Hand MR. P. J. LEE assistant secretary of the National Y. M. C. A. Council, who has heen assisting in the. local "Y"" mem- bership drive. First Regimental Parade F riday Night The Ontario Regiment will resume the anual training this week, the first parade to be held to-morrow evening, General instructions, came through yesterday from the officer commanding Military District No, 2 authorizing activities to commence. The training season will terminate before December 31. The opening smoking concert will take place at an early date. During the parade to-morrow evening a meeting of the officers will be held to discuss plans for the winter months. - It is hoped to make the armories a real sport: ing club during the training season, | having boxing and other entertain- ments, Two More Permits Issued For Houses The cool weather of the last week has been reflected in the number of building permits issued at the office of the Town Engineer. At the pre- sent time very little building activ- | The | ity is in evidence in Oshawa. following permits have been issued: | ~8. A. Kock, proposes to erect a brick dwelling valued at $3,600 on the south side of King Street. forts. Mr. D. F. Johnston declared that many new members could be in- {duced to join the "Y" merely by he ing asked, while Mr. Ardiel, assistant | to the Campaign Chairman, Mr. C.| E. McTavish, felt that if members of | the various teams worked as efficient | ly as the team captains, the full quota of members would be pro-| | cured. | Much has been said regarding the | | place which the Y.M.C {in the life of the community and | need for such an institution in a| {town the size of Oshawa has been] iemphasized on different occasions |so that campaign workers feel that | boys, men and young men should not | hesitate to signify their faith in the] | principles upheld by the Y.M.CA.| {by purchasing a membership card. | The campaign has been operated | as a kind of competition with two | | teams, one opposing the other. The |Speed Fiends compose one. force | with the Go Getters as their oppo-| nents. The number | two days is 127, the Go Getters bring- | ing in 171 pew members. Prizes are! being offered for the teams gaining! | the best results and the competition | | is very keen. ! | Who Secured Members | | The number of members signed by | | the teams is as follows: Speed Fiends| of members audience. fl procured by the Speed Fiends in the led by Mrs. the west side of John Street, be- | tween Alice Street and the Northend a brick dwelling to cost $1,500 will be erected by T. J. McKnight. Thank Offering Nets Women's M.S. $92 The annual thank offering of the A. has filled | Women's Missionary Society of the i the | Presbyterian Church was held | Tuesday afternoon in the chureh lec- | on ture room. There was a good at- tendance and the collection was an | nounced to have amounted to $92.) Mrs. F. E. Hare, president, occupied the chair. Miss Palethorpe, eans. She gave vivid word pictures of the mode of living of these people. Mrs. Russel Bale sang in a manner that was thoroughly enjoyed by her Devotional exercises were Jamieson. Local Curlers Not Represented Oshawa Curling Club was not rep- resented at the 9th annual meeting of the Ontario Curling Association "Yes, sir," was the response, "On | Friday night--8 o'clock. Admission | (first day)--Gillott 10, McIntosh 10, which was held in Toronto on Tues this particular occasion as we pulled out of the Pedlar People's yard the whistle was sounded and the bell rung." Witness stated ceived the conductor, gineer and conductor all were on the right side of the locomotive, while the accident, apparently, had occur- | red on the left hand side. "Did you look on the morth,--or left hand--side of the car as you started?" witness was asked by the crown. No, sir." "Then you only look on one side and attend to that side alone?" the crown said. "Yes, sir." This witness stated, that, the shunter could not have been travel- ling at more than two miles per hour when the accident occurred. He al- 80 added that children had caused the crew of the shunter many anxious moments by hopping on when the crew's attention might be diverted. Conductor's Story. Conductor Morris stated that he had not looked at the morth or left side of train. He had seen mo chil- dren. He had stood on the right side of the train. The only time he would look on the left side of the shunter was when a change was be- ing made to a double track. The balance of his evidence was similar to that given by the engineer. Dr. A. E. McKibbon told of being called to the scene; of rendering first aid, and ordering the removal of the body to the hospital. Henry King, trolley boy, could throw little light on the accident. Howard Dunn, another member of the crew stated that at Hall's coal yard children, in great numbers, would endeavor to steal rides om the sh 3 tated that the on Page 2) He (Continued that he had re- | the signal to proceed from | The brakeman, en-| BENNETT'S THREE-PIECE DANCE Sc. 84 ROLLER RINK OPEN EVERY Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday evenings. Also Saturday after- noo. 66-t.1.) -a {| Orchestra open for engagements. | Real snappy music. Apply Box | 327, Bowmanville. 79-81-81 |A TALENT TEA WILL BE GIVEN in Simcoe Street Methodist Sun- day School room on Tuesday Oc- tober 24th, from 4 to 6. All wel- come, (84-b) KEEP DEC. TTH AN OPEN DATE for the Hot Supper to be given unter the auspices of the Ladies' Aid of Simcee St. Methodist Church. 84-a RECITAL BY MISS JESSIE IRVING, Elocutionist, Entertainer, of Ham ilton, Ontario," on October 21, 1922 at 8 p.m., Oshawa Missionary Col- lege Assembly Hall. Admission 25 cents. a TICKETS FOR THE GIRLS FROM Vagabondia are now op sale at Hen- derson Bros, Bank of Montreal, and Mrs. Woodruff, 93 King St. "E. The seat plan will be open at the "Regent Theatre Saturday morning Oct. 21st. (84-c) KING STREET LADIFS' AID WILL hold their hot supper Thursday evening, October 26, from 5 to 8 o'clock, to be followed by an ex- cellent rt. Admissi PP and concert, adults 50 cents, chil- dren under 12 years, 25 cemts. 83-85-b PROGRESSIVE EUCHRE IN ODD- fellows' Hall, Friday evening, 8 o'clock sharp. This is the first of a series of three under auspices of Sunshine Rebekah Lodge. Ex- tra prizes to be given for the highest points gained during the series. (84a) Luke 12, Sterling 0, Johnston 15.! Young 9, Petley 4, Carlyle 0; Sim-' coe Street School 1, Centre Street School 0, Mary Street School 2. Sec- ond day--Gillott 13, McIntosh 15, Luke 3, Sterling 10, Johnston 10, Young 3, Petley 3, Carlyle 4; coe Street School 1, Centre Street School 0, Mary Street School 2. Go Getters (first day) McKinnon 13, Everson 4, Mcliveen 10, Hall 16, Dew- land 14, Chester and Ross 5, Lander 7; High School 11, King Street School 1, Albert Street School 0. Second day--McKinnon 9, Everson 0, Mcllveen 15, Hall 14, Dewland 12, Chester and Ross 12, Lander 0; Higa School 23, King Street School 5, Al- bert Street School 0. Sim- | day. The report of the executive committee showed that there was an increase of 246 members during the past year. In 1921 there were 44%7 registered, while in 1922 there were 4733. The invitation extended to the Royal Caledonian Curling Club hav ing been accepted the following tent- ative itinerary has been arranged. Kingston, two days: Peterboro, one day; Lindsay, one day; Toronto, five days; Hamilton, two days; Gait, one day; Owen Sound, one day; Lon- don, one day; and Detroit, two days. it is expected that the Scottish Cur!- ers will be in Torou'o during the last week in January. There will be about thirty curlers in the party. Mayor Stacey believes that within a few days, if not at once, there will be no excuse for hard coal being sold in Oshawa at more than $16 a ton or thereabouts. His worship had an interview in Toronto yester- day with Provincial Fuel Control- ler, J. A. Ellis, and the foregoing stat was based om the infor- mation received in that city. "I was watching the situation be- fore 1 went to the States ten dass ago," His Worship told The Refor- mer this morning. "I interviewed a large Toronto dealer at that time and he explained to me that iy was expected the United States Gowvern- ment would very soom ceatrol the price of coal mined hy independent companies. "I saw Mr. Ellis yesterday morn- ing and he told me that 90 per cent. of the independent coal dealers in INDEPENDENT COAL PRICE FIXED; FUEL SHOULD COST ABOUT $16 A TON AS RESULT, SAYS MAYOR the United States now have their price fixed at #925 a ton. This is only 75 cents a ton more than the line companies were allowed to charge, their price being $8.50 per ton. Inasmuch as the iadependent On | | work accomplished by Miss Jones, missionary on! furlough from Korea, spoke briefly! telling of her work among the Kor-! CHILDREN'S DEP'T WILL BE OPENED AT THE LIBRARY Municipalities Want More Information on Hydro Power System Board Hopes to Have Assist- ant Librarian For the Work Price of Gas Likely Lower Next Year Gas users will glory in the information appearing below, On Tuesday Deputy Reeve F. L. Mason went to Toronto as one of the Midland Municipal Association's representatives at the conternece held between the association's reprsentatives and the Gregory Hydro Com- mission, He came back yester- day bringing the welcome pre- diction of F. A. Gaby, chief engineer of the Hydro, that the SET ASIDE A SECTION Miss Jones Commended On Her Service Since Appointment needs of Oshawa | school children will be taken care | of. That was the decision arrived | at by the Library Board at a special | meeting yesterday afternoon in the price of gas to the Oshawa con- Public Library. Hitherto it has been ||| Sumer of 1923 should be con the policy of the Board to cater more ||| Siderably lower, While Mr. Gaby made no ac- particularly to the demands of its tual promises, according to Mr. adult patrons. However, it is the intention of the Board to inaugurate ||| Mason, taking the information as a basis, it looks as though a department which will be devoted | solely to the use of children. In ||| Oshawa householders will re- order that the best results will be ||| ceive reduced rates in 1923. attained in this department the This cheering news is made Board will endeavor to procure a possible. by the fact that al- young woman High School student | though a deficit was shown by |to take charge of this work. She the gas plant in 1921 of $10,- | will be sent to the Library Training 000, this deficit will be wiped {School, Toronto for training. out this year. The literary This innovation will, undoubtedly, prove popular with Oshawa school | children and should be the means of | encouraging them to cultivate their literary tastes. When the successful {applicant has been traired and has |entered upon her duties, in addition ito having charge of the children's {department she will act as an assis- (tant to Miss Jones, the present librarian. Her duties will be some- what similar to those of librarians in Toronto, instructing children, telling stories and selecting books for them to read. OSHAWA LODGES WELL REPRESENTED District Masonic Lodge of In- struction Held at Cobourg On Wednesday | Following the meeting members | of the Board inspected the reading {room of the Library with a view to | deciding what accommodation could be provided for such a department. While nothing definite was deter: {mined on the general feeling was that a section of the reading room Oshawa Masonic Lodges were well represented and came in for a big share of the honors at the District Lodge of Instruction which was held in Cobourg yesterday afterndon and evening. About forty local Masons attended. Representatives were pre- sent from all lodges of the district and the function was under the Ji rection of Rt. Wor. Bro. Dr. James Moore, D.D.G.M., Ontario District No. 12. During the afternoon, the first de- gree was exemplified by St. John's during her term here as librarian |Lodge, No. 17, of Cobourg. There and at a meeting to be held shortly, | were some minor criticisms by Rt some tangible plans will be adopted | Wor. Bro. Moore who was assisted in regard to the Children's Depart- |in this respect by Rt. Wor. Bro. W | ment. |M. Logan, Grand Secretary, Ontario | Lodee, No. 26, and Hope Lodge No 114 of Port Hope put on the F. C (degree. | At six o'clock a banquet was serv led in the Cobourg armories, and Williams Piano Co. Golf Trophy just as it commenced, Rt. Wor. Bro. Col. W. N. Ponton, Grand Master the ©f the Grand Lodge of Canada, in the Province of Ontario, arrived. He was given a rousing reception. Rt. Wor. Bro. Dr. Moore officiated as toastmaster. {at the extreme north end could he | devoted to this work, tables to be installed for the use of the children and books to suit their needs ar- ranged in stacks which could be built, if so desired. Members of the animous in paying Board were un- tribute to the F. W. Bull Wins Mr. F. W. Bull was declared winner of the Williams Piano Com- pany Golf Trophy, turning in a score of 64 net. This competition was {played for under the Electric rules, | whereby the player had the priv- lilege of playing eighteen holes on master. An address of welcome by {two consecutive Saturdays, and the Wor. Bro. Bickle of Cobourg fol- | privilege of lowed and then a solo was contri {player was given the ; i ine hole pl ¢ buted by Bro. Hill, also of Cobourg. using any pair of nine hole play ou ig PARI inv earl Diigo of the thirty-six, which would give 4 ; him the least gross score, and from the Grand Lodge was proposed by that gross score wae deducted his|Rt.- Wor. Bro. J. T. George, of Port Hope and responded to by Most handicap. > y PA 1 rs 1 javed Wor. Bro. Ponton 2nd Rt. Wor. Some of the players only played|, ' ,, ., and Rt. Wor. Bro. Mii i les, and thereb ie eighteen ho ereby tal ler, Grand Treasurer of the Grand their chances with other players . who played thirty-six, and the result Losge of Healtha tees od of the playing is 2: follows: xet| Wor. Bro. F. L. Fowke, of Oshawa cy and responded to by Wor. Bro. J. pon W. O'Dell of Cobourg. 71 After the Banquet the gathering 75 returned to the Lodge rooms where 76 the third degree was exemplified by Masters, Past Masters, and officers 831 of Cedar Lodge, No. 270 and Leban %1|an Lodge No. 139 of Oshawa. The g1 |degree work was carried out very 81 | efficiently and the addresses were of 81 /an outstanding character, making 85 | this Lodge of Instruction most pro- %7 | fitable to all who were privileged to 87 | attend. 88 F. W. Bull Robt. Henderson . A. E. Christian .. Dr. Bascom ... Herb Smith .. W. Millichamp Geo. Jacobs . H. P. Shell ... F. Story Geo. Evans ..... Rev. C. R. DePenc W. P. Hogg .. W. H. Hall ... - G. W. Hezzlewood ...... K. Creighton ' St. George's Hall, Sunnyside, Ready ' For Hockey Season ier NOT SO AWFUL New York Sun: First Actress-- Wouldn't it be awful if the earth stopped revolving and threw us into space? Second Actress--I wouldn't care The first was the toast; to the King, proposed by the toast-| Gregory Commission Will Be Asked to Answer Several Questions--Deputy Reeve Mason Stresses Need of Ad- ditional Current for Oshawa DELEGATES APPEAR BEFORE THE COM. Hydro Made Profit of $12,000 in Distribution of Power Here Last Year, Which Was Used to Cover Deficits on Other Parts of System The committee appointed by the Midland Municipal Association at its last meeting in Port Hope, an organ- ization which embraces approximately 34 municipalities of this district, met the Gregory Hydro Investigat- ing Commission in Toronto Tuesday, when the power problems of this section of the province were dis- cussed from every angle. Nothing definite was decided upon owing to the fact that there are still a number of questions in cou- nection with the purchase of the Central 'Ontario Power System on which further information is needed. T. H. Stinson, secretary of the Mid- land Municipal Association, has been instructed by the committee to pre- pare a list of questions which the Gregory Commission will be asked to provide satisfactory answers to before the deal for the purchase of this system is finally consummated. Deputy Reeve F. L. Mason, of Osh- awa, is a member of the special com- mittee, and he attended the confer- ence in Toronto. As at former meetings, Mr. Mason endeavored to point out that the vital question of the hour as far as Oshawa is con- cerned is the lack of power, and how it could be remedied. Made $12,000 Here Discussing with a Reformer repre- sentative this morning the results of the conference, Mr. Mason said: -- "The committee was unanimous regarding the principle of purchase. Mr. Gaby made a statement which showed that the Hydro Commission had made a profit of $12,000 in the distribution of power in Oshawa last year; and $8,000 in the town of Lindsay. These profits, or surpluses, had been used to cover deficits which occurred in the distribution of power in other municipalities. It isn't [air that we should pay for others. There are several questions to be considered before a decision is ar- rived at to purchase the Central On- tario Power System. Before it was taken over by the government the government requested the Hydro Commission to make a careful in- ventory of the system's assets. The inventory showed the system to he worth approximately $6,000,000. The government bought it for $8,- 350,000. The guestion, therefore, is what price the municipalities should pay for it. Two propositions were mentioned. One.was that the as- sociation take over the system at actual cost price and have bonds issued for 40 years at 4 per cent.; the other was to take over the sys- | tem at its present value and issue bonds for 40 years at the prevailing rate of interest when the bonds are issued. In the opinion of the com- mittee the best proposition was that of the 40 year bonds at 4 per cent. A Misunderstanding A question which few municipal- ities represented appeared to under- stand was that if they were called upon to purchase the system they would not be required to issue bonds. The Hydro Commission would do so and the association would enter into an agreement with the Hydro Conds mission. It was also generally conceded at the conference that the system could be efficiently and economically hand- led by the Hydro Commission than if there were a local commission in each municipality. It looks to me as though the only solution to the whole problem is power from Chip- pawa." Shortage of Power pe Chairman Gregory stated the ses- sion was being held in response to a letter received on September 19, A meeting was held in St. George's from Mr. T. H. Stinson, of Lindsay, if i i . f it threw us into mewspaper space. tary of the M d municipal Hall, Sunnyside on Wednesday Oct. 4th, for the purpose of organizing the young men of the Sunday School and Anglican Young People's Asso- ciation, St. George's Hall Branch, for hockey for the coming season. A discussion resulted in a resolution being passed that they enter a team so that the South Bad will be well companies mine only a small propor- tion of the total output, the small not controlled should mot mean pay. not be more than $14 a ton. "Mr. Ellis made it clear," must expect to go short of coal normal supply available, and the controller has authority to mot a! any one town or distriet." percentage of them whose price is much high priced coal thrown on the market. Added to the price of $8.50 or $9.25 is about $4.20 in freight and duty which the local dealers musi However, the price to them, as shown by these figures, should con- | ®® tinued his Worship that Oshawa There will be only 60 per cent. of the low more than 60 per cent. io go to rep ted in the popular winter sport. They also decided to enter an indoor Baseball team in the Town League under the mame of AY.P.A. Officers are:-- Hon. President Rev. C. Pencier. Hon Vice-President, F. L. Fowke. President, Mr. W. H. Platt. Vice-President Mr. C. Williams. Secretary Treasurer, Mr. T. Fitch- H. R. de 'Executive Committe: --Mr. Marks, 8. Lovelock, E. Goodall. In these sermons by radio, the -| static gives a fairly lifelike imitation of the coughing Boston Herald. by the aundience.-- association. | Mr. T. H. Stinson took the stand | and gave a resume of the activities of his association. It was desired to place their municipalities on the same basis as Hydro municipalities in western Ontario. A resolution had been passed favoring the purchase by each municipality of its own dis- tributing plant within its own terri- tory, and the purchase of power and transmission lines by the munici- palities combined under the Hydro commission. Gasoline prices in Oshawa have taken another drop. A few dealers in Oshawa low- ered their prices yesterday one cent while others did so this morning. The new price is 41 cents a gallon for the higher grade 37 cents for the lower grade. This is the second drop in price within two weeks. On October 11 the gasoline price was cut by a cent a gal- lon. The reduction yesterday following so close upon the other is indicative of a gen- Oshawa Alarmed. "What we are vitally interested in is more power," said F. Mason dep- uty reeve of Oshawa. "We are lange consumers of power in Oshawa and we are somewhat alarmed about the situation." Oshawa, he said, was now paying $20 to $21 for horsepower. "it is of $2 or $3 extra: it whether any further reduction might be expected.