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| % 3¢ e 4+ s foeus u»sa.., 3*VVUY, ARC Shore waere s1x whose fees were less than $1,000. He believed that the country felt strongly about this matter, and that the people generally were of opinion that a large pronortion of these Registrars Wwere in receipt of sums which must be considered excessive, and that the remuneration they received was too great for the class of services they performed,. Hs was aware that during the last general elec-- tion this matter was brought very prominently forwara in the course of the canvass, at least in the western part of the Province, and it waythe View of tha __ris #. a , _ * ~ +~"70, HIUC WHAOQSO tees were under $5,000 but exceeded $4,000 ; five whose feee were between $4,000 andi $3,000; seventeen whose fees wore between $3,000 and $2,000 ; cight whose fees were between $2,0G0 and $1,000, and thore were SIx Whose Lomsa mau. L *UM u k ue : «. . " ~~*woelp ekid l' PEres 23 .. SE otf the public generally th.t something should be done to reduce the fees, or at all events that 4 portion of the feea paid to those R'.'mh'm who wWere in receintk af | of great assistance to those who wera prom®* -- ting such railways ; while, if unfavourable, it | might on the other hand be the meansof pre venting the useless expeaditare of a very large smount of monoy. At tho present time throughout the country, from one end to the other, projects of this kind | were sprirging up. lt woull be not only unveceseary, but an irsult to the int»l-- legenceof hon. gentlemen, thatheshould take up their time in discussing the advantages which must enevitably flow from the con-- struction of railways through the newly set-- tled parts of the country. As to that, ho thought there could not be two opinions ; and the regret was universal that hitherto we had not been able to devise any practica-- ble means for the construction of such ratul-- ways. By resorting, however, to the system | of wooden railways, he was satisfied that we ' had placed within our means the construc-- . tion in poorer localities of roads which would ? secure the end we all so much desired. Dur-- ing the past suramer he had had occasion to | devote a good deal of attention to this sub-- ject, and he had also visited the wooden railway which had been in operation for three or four years in the state of New York, known as the Clifton Railway. From what he had seen, he was satisfied that these rail-- ways were capable of performing all that was claimed forthem, ar d nany othergentlemen of , Enctical experience and having anintimate knowledge ofrailwayshad visited thiswork and had come to the same conclusion as to the merits of the system. We had also before us the action of the Quebec Legislature and _ people, who were now pushing vigorously forward several projects of this kind. Ho thought, if we followed their example, we would be doing something that would very materially benefit this Province. He might also mention that he was informed that, at a short distance from Clifton, they had com-- menced to build another wooden railway. This afforded strong proof that those who had the best opportunity of juadging of the merits of these works were satistied that they were capable of doing all that was represented. He thought it was quite urnecessary that he shou%d taike up time further in arguments to show that this Com-- mittee ought to be granted an order to ex-- amine into the subject. Mr. CA RNEGLIE--We take m at intsrest in the subject in the east. Mr., HAYESremarked that the Committes, as named by the hon. mover, was an almost purely eastern Committee. F 1 OA YEveY wuro ere less than $1,000. He country felt strongly about that the people generally that s ... " _ {Mi® _ receipt of | _ | hewspa Mr. LOUNT had understood from the hon, gentleman who had introduced the question, that the question was felt by the people to be in some degree a grievance which called for amendment ; but it generally happened that where there was a grievance generally felt, there were petitions received by the House complaining of it, or at least, if peti-- tions were not presented, they found that newsgaperp or other vehicles of public opin. * e o e * "Ammh m L _# 1y _ _"/° + PIVVIMUVUS UHAO | Government of the day took away appoint-- ments from some hard--working officials and gave them to favourites; and they also ap-- pointrd registrars 'or ridings where there ex-- isted no necessity for the additional appoint-- mext. He osked bis hon. friend to prop>und a schome of some sort, which would show how hbe propesed to tako away the salary {rm these Registrars who reccived the larger cmount, and give it to those who received lces. cifion on this matter than @ might be laid before it At thought no harm could be done matter calling for serious and sideration. _ very large sums should be handed over to be / used for some public purpose He would j not, however, lay before the House what was his own opinion as to what should be | dovne. lt would be for the Committoe, | if allowed to be formed, to enter into a . thorough examination of the whole question, _ and to report to the House some ;Elnn which . would be just to the country, without doi:& injustice to these gentlemen who occupi official positions, He believed there were ' hundreds and thousands of well qualified per-- J sons, who would be glad to take those posi-- !] tions for a much smaller remuneration than ' the presert incumbents received. Under these circumstances be though it was the _ duty of the House, while doing no injustice ' to the present incumbents, to adopt such measures as would redress what the people of the country generally feltto be a griev-- / ance. | _ Attorney--General MACDONALD -- said with respect to the large salaries received by some Registrars, that he apprehended from the statement of the hon. member for East Middlesex (Mr. Evans) that a very large ma-- jority of them were too well paid to be con-- l sonant with the liberality of Reformers. '| Where there was a large amount of laogisla-- tion in operation, he took it that there must be a very considerable amount of additional labours cast upon the Registrars, in the way of examining titles, and in other equally re-- | sponsible matters, He knew that it had been | often observed with regret that there were f respectable men who did not receive sufficient | deserts for their labours, and who were ex-- | pected to keep their offices open from ten to | three every day, and to take an equal pro-- | portion of responsibility and risk with the | Sheriff's office with regard to everything in | their department. _ But this was so on the | principle that those w 1o had small and compa-- ratively light duties to performshould receive remureration in accordance. It had been said that they should legalise the pay of these Registrars, asd of the Sheriffs, and Clerks of the Peace, by means of funding the foes -- and then paying an equable certain salary; but he would ask how were they to fund these fees ? They had no means of ascer-- taining the exact amount of business tran-- sacted by Registrars; for though they could establish & certain check upon the amount of stamps placed upon documents, and could calculate the cases which were shown in his . books, they had no means whatever of gain-- ing an exact return of monies received by him in other ways, 'Tiae motion proposed to throw upon a Committee the task of devising some means of improving the working of the present system of remunerating Rogistrarsa. , He could very well understand the present ' system which was founded on the principle I PA Coogo w i y ,, hy Welehs PAGV HUGO salary should not exceed the sum of $2,500, and that the surplus, after allowing & per centage on the work performed, should be returned to the County Treasurer, With regard to the remarks of the Hon. Attorney-- General, he would admit that he had no de-- finite plan to place before the Committee ; but he did not wish to throw the onus upon that body. Ie was prepared to assist it so far as he was able ; but he thought that the reveral members of the Committee would be able jointly to come to & much better de-- olclon AKm Ahis 2oocag 9 .8 Mr. EVANS--The great majority of them --all these who receive above $2,000 _ He thoupghkt that a salary of $1,000, or $1,500, would be amply sufficient, but this he left in the hands of profeszional gentlemen, who had more knowledge on the point. . The Regis-- trars, as a rule, be knew, were men who did not spend much time in studying the law, or in other studies, and there were some men whom he knew had been laced in this position who were but little getter trained than many farmers. The plan hel woul'c'l ;:gopose was simply this, that the salaru shasws uie ulsncs Sn ./b e L Mr EVANS said, with regard to his own views, he hrd no hesitation in saying that he commidered that the salaries of the majority ui the Registrars he had mentioned woere far too high; that they were, in fact, excessive. Attorney--General MACDONALD--How meny ? Conooiy . Soom), e mEVV @osoUu . W ALCL divided registry offices, but, stga.nge to say, the scheme did not satisfy those who promot-- ed it, and it was very shortly after repealed. It was found that under its neaviaiana thk that in proportion to the work done--in proporticn to the fees received--should be the remuneration; but he supposed that the hon,. member for East Middlesex was pre-- pared to recommend to the House some other mcde, and if so,he should have told the House what the plan was that he proposed to bring be'ore the Committse,if they entered upon their investigations. He ought to have told the House his plans, and they might ther possibly have adopted his idea of rolerr-- ing it to a committee, but he had not even proposed a crude and undigested plan, for he had not brought forward any scheme at all. The hon. members of the House knew very well the working of the present Registrar Law, and the amount of responsibility there was upon those officials; and he would again say that there ought to be some information placed before the House as to what the hon. member proposed. Did he, for instance, pro-- pose that the Government should pay a cer-- tain sum to them, whatever might be the extent of their duties ? or did he propose that those who did the most work should receive a corresponding salary? At one time, he re-- ger.:':'bgred, 'tl'lfre was an Act passed which & e q¥ T e -':rvuuvu. under its provisions the one, for it was a and earnest con-- i any plan that At any rate, he ALLEGED HARD Mr. McKELLAR for a copy of the I John _ Nicholls, {for 1 5" 5y S [ --afA h #ald: 1 'hope the hon,. House will permit my hon. friend to go on,. He very seldom occupies our time, and I think it is only fair that he should be allow-- ed to discuss the question, Mr. EVANS, then, further contended that the dutios of the Registrar Offices could be done at much less cost than was now paid, and said he was surprised to find cham-- pions in that House of excessive payments out of the pockets of the people. With reference to the remarks of the hon. member for South Grey (Mr. Lauder), he believed that the motion, as he had framed it, might fairly be considered to embrace the whole of the discuerion which that gentleman pro. posed. ("Withdraw.")' As there seemed to be a general opinion against the adviubility of his motion, he would not furthep detain the House, but would withdraw his motion, Motion accordingly withdrawn, Mr. LA UDER said his objection was not so much with regard to the large amount of the salary received by the Registrars as it was to the amount which people had to pay for the registration of their deeds and for making a search, &c. There was at ons time corsiderable difference in the fees charged by different Registrars, but at the present mo-- | ment they were more equal, and he should be sorry to see any disturbance to this state of affairs,. With regard to the difference in the amourts received by the various Regis-- trars, he did not see how the enquiries ofthe proposed Committee could in any way assist; | the House in remedying it. 1f it was thought that the feesshould befunded with the Coun-- ty Council, it would, as had been already shown, be found to be a difficult matter; and if it was proposed that the counties should , be divided, that also would be found to be very difficult. _ Now, if the hon. member would have included in his motion the en-- quiry by the Committee into the propriety of funding the fees of all county officials, such as shenffs' officers, clerks of the peace, coun-- ty clerks, so that the whole of them might be fairly and equ.tably paid, then hs ( Mr. Lauder) would admit that he should seo more reason for the motion,. -- Hs thought there was less ground for complaint in the question of Registrars than there was with reference to sheriffs' officersand other county officials. It was but fair when reference was made to the high salary received by some Registrare, to remember that some were al-- most half starved. _ The investigation pro-- posed was too narrow. With regard to fund-- | ing the fees of the various oflicials, he thought it was 'rather a matter within the Jurisdiction of the Government than for private memtsers. He hoped the hon, mem-- ber, seeing the opinion of the House, would wiihdraw the motion. | Mr. EVANS, in reply, said with regard to the fact that had -- been | referred to, that no petitions had been | presented complaining of the grievance, | that it was not to be expected that petitions | would be presented upon such a point as there were upon measures of a more general nature. He could see no reason why the matter should not be taken up. It was rather strange, he thought, that the hon. gentleman who had supported the existing arrangements represented counties where the ! Registrars received the highest salary, Mr. | Evans was proceeding to make some personal ' relzlnarks in reference to hon, members, when-- 1 spok Mr. HAYS said he thought it was a very fair way to pay ofiicials in accordance with the work that they performed. He saw no necessity for the appointment of the proposed Committee, and personally he had never heard any complaint in reference to the matter. penses, (""No.") "Well, then, it was to cover everything, but he thought if the hou. member knew anything about Registry Offi-- ces and the duties of Registrars, he would be of a different opinion. They had to employ a number of clerks, for whose acts as well as for their own personal doings, they were held to be responsible, This placed those officials in a very onerous position, for if any loss was occasioned through any oversight or error on the part of a clerk, the Registrar was liable to .fl losses occasioned thereby; considering this and the natureof their duties, he did not think that Registrars were a too largely paid body. He believed if a plan were adopted of making the Registrar a sort of superintendent in the Registry Office, and employing some clerks under him, who should be paid by the Government, that, in the place of the five or six who now suffice,it woufd be found necessary to employ twelve or fourteen ; and the salaries of these clerks would more than amount to the sum of money actually received by the Registrar in the discharge of his duties. He was not pre-- pared to oppose a fair investigation of the case by a committee if the hon. member had the slightest plan to place before it; but so far as be could see he had not any, but had introduced the matter into the House in this crude and undigested state, He did not think the time of the House should be given to the consideration of the subject as sug-- gested. the lips of his hon. friend, any complaints at all in reference to the matter. The mat-- ter had been under the consideration of the House before, and a settlement had been arrived at, after the question had been thor-- oughly investigated, when all parties who hag any complaints to make were heard. _ It tad been supposed that this arrangement had given satisfaction to everybody ; but they had now found that at least there was one hon. member who was still of opinion that there were grievances to redress. . But what were -- those _ grievances ? _ Thaat they had some five Registrars in the Province who received $5,000 a year, while he admit-- ted that $2,500 was but a fair remuneration He supposed that he meant that that sum was to be his saiary over and above his ex-- ion gave information with respect to it. For his own part, he had not heard, except from ) TREATMENXqp moved an ad, petition of Wwi certain -- land. ~'ve payments people. With e hon. member ) he believed William A very voluminous return was made to the House yesterday, in reply to an address moved by Mr. Blake for copies of all corre-- spondence, &c., on the subject of the public Cebt, and the adjustment of accounts be-- tween Canada and Ontariq, a considerable proportion of the °°"'°'P°ndonoe has been published already. The following are the reports by Mr. Tremmurer Wooq to the Exec-- { utive Council of Ontario a, ; . _ "48 4 Athat nays ag y . _ _VA y Dasikgeo through that part of the country to the Red River Settlement. Mr. Sexton--En quiry whether Government intend to introduce during the presont ses-- sion, a measure for making it incumbent vpon cities united with counties, for judicial purposes, to pay & just proportion of jurors' expepses incurred at the several Courts of Quarter Sessions for such counties, Mr. Lount---Select. Committee to enquire into the present position of the Huron and Ontario Ship Canal, and also into the prati-- cabihklty and advantage of the proposed wor Mr. Rykert--Special Committee to con-- sider such amendments as may be necessary to be made to the Common School Act, with power to report by Bill. Mr. Ferrier--Enquiry whether the Gov-- ernment have takon any ateps ; or, if not, if they intend to take steps for the surveying the country to the north of Lake Superior, with a view to its settlement, and the proba-- bilities of an Intercolonial Railway passage through that part of the country to the Red River Settlement. The following notices have been given :-- Mr. Rykert--Act to amend the Common Law Procedure Act. The House adjourned five, Hon. Mr. CAMERON brought down the reply to an address for correspondence, &2., respecting the Public Debt, and the ad jnst-- ment of accounts between Canada and On-- tario, Mr, LAUDER explained that the institu-- tion received a grant of public monsy, and ie wished to have the returns he asked for in order to see how the money had been ex-- pended. There were other reasons which had been communicated to him by constitu-- ents of the Hon Secretary himself, which he Cid not think it necessary to particularize. With regard to their institution, he might perhaps more fully explain the matter when the returns were brought down. The return would be no expense to any body, and there could be no objection to it. Ihe motion was agreed to. THE PUBLIC DEBT, &c. ] 1 73. 1 °3 "f y DNAAA REHG I1 Was--quilte--eagy to do what he said. __ The motion was then carried. f CANADIAN INSTITUTE OF TORONTo __ _Mr, L&AUDER moved for an Addrers for a return, shewing the receipts and expendi-- ture, during the last two yoars, of the Ca-- nadian Institute of Toronto, the number of meetings held during the past tweive months, the number of lectures delivered, and sub-- jects upon which they were delivered; the present membership of the Iostitute, and the incresse or decrease during the last five years; also a copy of the Constitution and by--laws of the Institute. | _ , 11771 Af, VaAmbLaVGiA WOoulid like to know | Low it was possible for a Gov--rnment to have the clastic powers spoken of. They must have their rules to go by. Hon, Mr. CAMERON asked the hon. member the object of these returns, and for what reason they should put the offisials of the Institute to the trouble of preparing them ? Hon, Mr. CAMERON said, with reference ] to the obkservation that there BhOl'lld he more | elasticity in these matters, that it was part | of the policy of the hon. 'fientlemen opposite that the Government should have a cast--iron rule with regard to the adininistration of the lands, mines, &c. They had substituted for the rule by statute the rule by Orders in Council, which could be altered, and tnere-- fore the remark of the hon. member fell to thke ground. Attorney--General MACDONALD had objection to the motion being passed. emigrants, of that class of settlers which was chicfly required in the country, viz., farmers who bad means varying from £500 to £3,000 or £4,000, and he (Mr. McKellar) understood that the Government declined, because it was stated the law, or the regulations of Parlia-- ment were against their conseat. He thought that if such was the case there should bs a little more elasticity in the law, and his ob-- ject in moving for these returns was, that if the facts of the case were really as they had been narrated to him, that the House should have an opportunity of expressing an opinion as to whether the action of the Government had been liberal, and was calculated to pro-- mote the settlement of the country. Mr. MCKELLAR had said nothing about Orfers in--Council, for he was agzainst them. He wisked to see more liberality in these to the Government for a grant of land of from one thousand to two thousand acres, and was prepared to bind himself to erect & mill and make further improvements, such as were absolutely necessary in forming new zettlements; and, in addition to this, ho was prepared to'lll:.ing out a number of English 'he _ Muskoka GIfVICD, _ bogether with all Orders in Council, and all Correspondence bad with Mr. Nbic'h'f)lns _tOflOhu;g the same, He would state, briefly, in explanat his cbject in moving the address, Hg :';'der- etood that Mr. Nicholls, who had arriveq from England some months &20, came to this country with letters of recommendation from the highest officials and others in England, as to his character and respectability, He went cut into the Muskoka Territory, explored there, and finally selected & location about thirty miles beyond any other settlement in that district at the present time. He applied Sn *WEK x : PX cce uns ccma n n ies l cesc lc a m e 2 the Mr, McKELLAR said it was quite oo * C0n0 CA . <e% utelB. 10n THE ARBITRATIOX NOTICES OF XMorI0y Mr. CAMERON would like to know nq f.,,_~ Of BCtoounts be. ind Ontario, . & considerable the correspondence has been ldY- Th' fOlIO'ing are the Treasurer Wood bo the Exxc. o ObrvkmatL were other reasons which nicated to him by constitu-- Secretary himself, which he necessary to particularize. on what took place at 20 minutas to t, _ together win & &6 no