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Mr, Mo R. Bachus Athe passag Nisgara L R. bachus, and others of Wa'i'zsingham, for Athe passage of an Act to snable the Eirie and Nisgara Railway to extend their line, Mr. Blake--From the Township Council sf Armasranth, for participation in the Land Hirprovement Fard,. Mr, McDougall--From Board Sechool Trus-- Lees of Honfrow, respecting the School Laws,. Mir, Willlams (Lurbham) -- From John ' Waish, of Cavaun, praying that the separa-- tion cf the Counties of Northumberland and . Dutbam be not allowed; also from Township Council of Manvers, Town Council of Pork | Rope, and Towaship Council of Hops, to the l sams effect. Mr. Craig--From Robort Cross and othors, ! that Bill No. 45, granting power to crect a | dsm on the river Garry may not become i2 W. Atty--Gerneral _ MACDONALD said the time for private Bills had elapzed and it could therefore cot be received. FIRST READINGS. The following Bills were received :-- Mr. COYNE--Act to revise the Charter fcr a limited period of the Hamilton and Port Dover Railway. ue e uies io. 5) ie o onl o raevone ns amne ie in w 1g4 that no charter oo gra stinrction of a railway is poict on the Misgara Rivs Mr, MoCall presouted a R. Bachus, and others of Mr. LYON said he belioved that the par-- | ties thought it was a public Bill but on look-- | ing at it he tound that it was a private Bill | The Bill was accordingly withdrawn. Mr, LA UDER----Act to amond Chap. 69 of the Consolidated Statutes of Upper Canada, | relating to the bolding and conveying of real | eatate by the Religious bodies mentioned ' thergin. [ Atty.--General _ MACDONALD again | thjceted *Lat it wae not a public Bill ; they , mignt call everything that camse forward | there a public Bil!. 3 'Aft(r- a few words from Mr, Blake, the Eill was received. UPPER CANADA COLLEGE, Mr. CARNEGIE moved that the Select Ccommittee on Upper Canada College be al-- lowed to report from time to time. Atty..Gen, MACDONALD wished to know the reason of this. Mr, CARNEGIE said his object ia making this motion was to ask permission to obtain ibe services of a reporter, and to reduce the cuorum to pine. _ There were resolations to this effect passed in Cormmmittee, Atiy. Gen-- b!AQDON ALD said that thore cculd be =o objection to the latter, _ With regurd to the furmh it might be very pre-- udicial to the mt,;'"" of the College to Wave the partial evidence of the Committee placed before th?d ouael; They required (hat th6 whole evidence s ould be placed be-- {jore thet® AI he followin« Orer J EGiolATiHE { Th s Speaker took the chair at 5:05 p. im. 0 vnet1 Jbt't' barter oo grauted for the con-- a railway from Glensco to a Nidsagara Hiver. PETITIONS3, petitions were presented :-- ions were pressuated, pray-- Moxv»iy, Dec. 6th, 1899. F SHTANMIQ l' w lt ba 0.!1 t .0.'! f ~ ¥ aAalng .|13 3 m -- ** That the selection of sites for Provincial lpstitutions, established by the Legislature, should be made solely in the public interest, ard shou'!d aot be to any extent dependent en favour, or on the political opinions pre-- valent in the locality ; and that to make it ro depcrdoant will tend to impair public morality and to subvert the indepsndence of the House." In {moving the first {resolution, Mr. Blake said that from time to time in the history of the lcgislation of the Province, and of Eng-- land, Acts had been passed by which the »umber of persons eligible for membership to that House, who might be influenced by any favour on the part of the Government, had been very bappily limited. An Act had been passed last sgession with the view of securing the independerce of members of the Legislature, because it was felt that any per-- son who was indebted to the favour of the Government for some emclument was ren-- dered incapable of being as indepsrdent in his action as he ought to be, and preovented from discharging his daty to his constituency and to the country. The enactment was so wide in its application that it included pay-- ment of fees in the place of salary, For in-- stance, the payment of Registrars, who re-- ceived rno money nor fees from the Crown, but only reccived fees from those for whom they worked, but whose appointment was roe-- ceived at the hands of the Crown, and who were liable to be dismissed by the Govern-- ment, were rendered ineligible to sit in the House. _ But theie were, however, some offices of profit to which the Executive had the power of nomination, but to which they did rot contribute the emolument. Thera bad been one of these class of cases in which an hon. gentleman had been appointed to the office of arbitrator. This he thought, was obroxious to the good rule lsid down, quite as much as the case of a Registrar who received fees from the public, but w> held his office at the pleasure of the Goverrment. He therefore submitted to the House, with confidence, the propriety of the proposgition submitted in these resolutions, He was sure that the interests of the Houss required that members of Parliament should be protected in their position. Mon might be found quite as competent to fill the position as any members of the House. 1t appeared to him that although an hon member might satisfy himself that the receiv-- ing of this favourof the ExecutiveGovernment would not bias his conduct, it was yet impossi-- ble to avoid the effect in the public miad resulting from such a course of procedure, The course of conduct taken by an hon. member vyould always be received in the light of his connection with the Government, and it was desiral;le, in the interests of the reputation and high standing of the Cham-- ber itself, that there should be no foundation for such an idea in the public mind. 1t seemed to him of great consequence that they should remove the last vestige of any power on the part of the Crown to interfers, cither really or apparently, with the independence of members of this House. The law of the lard prevented a Queen's Counsel receiving m £5 fee as Crown Counsel on a circuit for the reason that they should be not at all influenced in their conduct by reseint of said emoluments ; yet th ui i Pubnc y still had the power of appointing & membey of this Honse to an cffice which exercised influence over a considerable sum of money, He did not think.that. membersg Ouflhfi .to be placed in this situation, he did not think th pGovor y mert ought to bave the power, a d° if it is taken away, be was quite anre that ho in. # i.4 sure that the in-- dependence, standing ang diguity of, thi [ ?ouse would be exercised Hgm i ol M °4. He would there: ore move the resolutions u hich, if _ adopted, he should found a Bij. _ " _ _' * «* That the tenure, by members ot this House, of employments of profit in the gift of the Executive, whether such profit be or be not payable out of the public funds, will tend to aubvert the independence of this House, and should be prohibited. «*That the participation of members of this House in contracts for supplies to Provincial Institutions, sustained and controlled through the Executive, will tend to subvert the iade-- pendence of this Houss, and should be pro-- kibited. Mr, BLAKE introg@uced the following rs-- aclutions :-- Atty.--Gen. MACDONALD was of opinion that nothing would satisf the hon. gentle: man. *% :l:he nmotion wou{d not Buws Tanam ekAelCalt _ . T1E C _ _ y VIVaE -- WOsE not h;v; been made if the Government haq thought pro-- Er to appoint members of tn, Opposition ; he s t Nee > es oA uslsc ols : 7 BB Ge s The motion was withdrawn, and Mr. CAR-- NEGIE presented one, asking merely for the reduction of the quorum to nins,. w. Hon, Mr. CAMERUN said, if the Com-- miltee wished to appoint one they could do d:d, He was not prepared to go on with tha affair unless the Committee were allowed a short--hand writer, Mr, BLAKE said, in the Law Improve-- went Fand Committee, all the evidence was taken down by the chairman. Atty--Gen, MACDONALD said a short-- band reporter would cost more than an or-- dinary Clerk, and if one committes were allowed a short--hand--writer others would expect to be allowed one. _ He did not con-- sider the evidence so very important, but if it were, the newspaper reporters would take it in full and publish it in the press. Mr, CHRISTIE said the Committee last year, after spending some time, found it was imporsible to take down the evidence pro-- perly, and one was employed. He regretted that the Government had taken thestand they Mr. CARNEGIE said, unless the Commit-- tee were allowed a reporter they would re-- fuse to act any further, Atty.--Gen. McMURRICH said, withou* making such a proviso in their report they would "°,t rbe liable to act any further. ¢ gect of the Committee was in this case to report that theX wanted a reporter, and t> ;;:eto bi&:uowtet § g;:'&uca their quorum to * matters a only report once, before, they could Nr. CARNEGTIE said the intention was eimply to report this time, and then not to rcport again till they desired to make their tual report, Carricd. Mr. BLAKE said he TENURE BY MEMBERS. A& member of this House orcised influence over a [ money, _ He did not i cught to be placed in l not think the Govern-- the power, and if it was understood the ob-- but because it happened that 'fiéfii;"; t after Government ga.ve these offices to thot.l who . supported them, the hon. gentleman | wished to bring in a Bill with the intention | of repealing theso powers. _ It was a wonder that they got along so well as they had do with these drawbacks. The hon member hng copstituted himself the assertor of publ'ic ' morals, yet during the lasg 25 years Govern-- | ments bad been carnestly proclaiming from | the Speaker's chair that the coulntry t was prospering on every hand by trade | and commerce, and in the foundation of that on which the public msrals of the country was placed, namely, the education ol i the people. The wonder was, how thay with this Gefect of systom, and this immoral [ system, had been able to get along at all Bat into what a atate of happiness and joy they would emerge when the legislation of bis hon. friend was fairly established. Tho ' hon. member failing to get & fair issue with the Government, had come dowa with these resolutions in order to raiss a party issue. He wished to relieve the Governmsnrt of _ every vestage of influence thaithey had oxer-- ciged;and that, because they could appoint an. ' arbitrator between two musicipalities requir ing adjustment in fisancial affairs. Dowa ccmes the hon, gentleman, and says that it m st ke stopped. He could not beliove that they were so corrupt in the Houss, as that her. members were influerced by such ap: peintmerts, or that such appoiotasnts were calculated to bring the House into disrepu'e, arad especially in appointmeants by which th« fuids of the Government were not drainsd He cdid not bellevo thatthe hou. gestlsmar would be able to convince the Houss or him-- solf, that it was necessary to take away thc power of making these appoictmants, 'These objections cf the hon. member were raised for political purposes, and in the absencoe oi ary rcal occasion of compiaining againss the Goverracuat. The illustration of the hoa. \ gentleman on mattors of registration was | singularly unfortunate, and he had aiso re-- | ferred to the practice of Eogland; but in re-- % ply, he wou'}d recall to his memory the action | of Mr. Gladstone, in a cass hs mentioned, | and also the appointment of Mr. Cobden, tc | negotiate the Arglo--French Treaty. Mr, BL&KE--Bat what did hs get ? Atty.--General MACDONALD--I do not know what he got. (Hear, hear) The mo-- tion was brought forward against the hou. member for South Leeds; it was brought for-- ward a a mere party question, and as such, he hoped it would be defeated. Mr SMITH (North Iceds ard Grenrville} said in times gone by in Englanad, it was fourd necessary to gnuard against the infringa-- ment of the rights of the psople by the Crown. Noone could object to ths iu-'io-' pendence of the Housoe beisg msintained,| but he considered the attempt to preserve it in allits minor details, was osaly wastine: time on trivial saffairs. BHe supposed hi hon. friead from Brucs, if invited to dine, with amember of the (Government, wou'!d consider it an attempt to subvert his inde-- pendence, and would reply, ""Gst theo be-- bind me Satan " (Laughter). He (Mr 8.) considered it a serious matter for anyone in this House to risse in his place and charge aty of his fellow--members in such a mannsa: #s tho hon. member for South Bruce had cbarged him (Mr Smith). The cause might be attributed to the fact that his hon. friend was a member of a profession not remarkable forits honesty (laughter), and the hon. gen-- tleman bad sustained the credit of the pro feesion in this respect sinco he had obtained a seat in this House. | Mr. McKELLAR called the attention o! thke House to the fact that the hoa. msmbe for North Leeds was reading his speech. (Laughter.) Mr. SMITH contended ho was only fol lowing the custom of the House, (Laughter.] ; He believed all those cloquent speeche: which went forth to the country to glorify, their authors were all propared beforechand. I The only difference was, that while othe:| ! bon. members learued theirs off better be | y forehand, he (Mr. S.) referred to his notes -- more frequently. (Laughter) He wa:; charged with having goneover to the Govern-- . ment, after being elected a Reformer. It was alleged that for the paltry consideration of s few dollars he had sold himself. And this charge, too, came from the hon. member for South Bruce, who was running about the +treets of Toronto in pinafores while he (Mr S.) was fighting the battles of the Reforrci party,. He would make a few personal ex| planations with regard to this charge. He) came to this House as a Reformer, but was) elected on his declaration to give the Patent, Combination a fair trial, and to support the! Confederation and abide by the consequences, Here commenced the difference botweon hi: _hon, {riend and--himself,. With the Union 0|| the Provinces came a disruption of the le:} form party. Those who supported the Coa ; lition were read out of the party by its greal| leader. But the time of political executior was drawing to a close. 1t was on facts tha! principles were based. 'The facts in the cas<: were that the issues of the past wore doad and there was no use in fighting ower them. Nevertheless when ho entered the House h« was expected to give unquestioning obediernce to the Reform party. As soon as it was found out that he was dotermined t give the Government a fair trial he was ex-- cluded from the party. But be contendsd his course throughout had been a consisten | ons. He had come here with the intentior | of supporting the Government so long as i! | deserved support, but the moment it failed to govern the country well, he was prepared to go into opposition. He was sorry ton)\ that the course of ths Opposition from thi begivning had been a very unwise one, They bad been raising objections anc wasting the time of the House on the mos: trivial questions, Ho deprecated this, and their unfair attempt to fasten unfound=. | charges on him. (Applause.) | Hon.' Mr. RICHARDS wishsd | to | draw attention to what was the law in days gone by, and thi | law of the present day. The Aot passed. last seesion was founded on the same princi-- ples, and was almost identical with the one existing before the Union. In the year 1813, aud for a few years succeeding a ReformGov -- ernment was in power. _ A Government com« posed of such men as Lafontaine, Baldwin, and other fireat Reformers; and that Gov-- | ernment followed the pratice condemned b Hon,. Mr. CAMERON said his hon friend from South Bruce seemed determined to wasts the time of the House in discussing theoreti-- | cal questions. The hon. gontleman had ad-- vanced the ideathat because Governmeonthad-- the power under two Acts of last session to' give offices of emolument to two hou. gontle-- men of this House, that the independence of its members was endangered. Thehon. gen-- tleman must have taken a very low estimate of the members of this House, if he couid Euppose that they were so easily inflzenced. The gentlemen who were thus appointed did zot hold their oftices on the sufferance of th« Government. They had been appoint d to perform certain duties, -- and they were expected to atttend to this. ' He (Mr, Cameron) was surprised to kear his hon. friend complain that Reformers had received the offices. _ Did the hon geo-- tleman suppose that Reformers wore more easily corrupted than Conservatives ; (Laughter.) The fact was, that the issues o' the past were dead; and although new issues | might arize in the future, there was really nc party at present but the one. He was sorry the hon. member for Bruce could not find ' some worthier subject on which to employ \ bis talents. f _ Mr. McCALL (Norfolk) could not see any l necessity for taking hon,. members out of | this House to perform public dutics. There were numbers of people outside the Houss. quite competent to fill all the offices the Government had to bestow. -- He had heard ) complaints from the people only last year \ that a member of the House had reccived a, | fee from Government, | _ Attorney --Gen'l, MACDONALOD--" Name | bim." :' _ Mr, McCALLsail he approved of tho pria-- | cipleadvocated by the hon. member for South ! Eruce ; he would vote for the original resolu« Atty.--Gen. MACDONZ s montbs' hcist. ALD moved a six Mr BLAKE rose to a point of order. Th: Hon,. Attorney--General had oo right to rige asecond timo; he had made his speech and had ro right to speak a second time. Mr GOW said these resolotions had been put before the House in the most delicats manner,. No members of this Chamber had been mentioned, It was simply the princi-- ple which was condemned. He was sur prised that the Hon, Commissioner of Crown _ Lands had gone back z> far for precedent. If the hon. gentleman bad gone far encugh back he would have found Reformers who supported the burping of witches. He hoped the House would show by their vote that they had a due regard for their independer:ce. Atty.--Gern. MACDONALD again rose tc move a gix months' hoist. Mr, BLAKE rose t a point of order. Atty.--Gen, MACDONALD said he had not #poken, he merely read the motion. After a short discussion Attorney--Gene ral Macdonald withdrew his motion. A skhort discussion arose, and Mr. Blake read the rule in question, which provides that no member shall move an amenimenst after having once spoken, because in moving the amendgment ho must addross the House. Atty.--Gen. MACDONALD contended that be had a perfect right to make the motion. He had never heard such an objection made before. Mr. SPEAKER said ho was somewhat atfs loss to decids this question, but hs could soe ro reason why the hon. Attorney--General should not move a simple amendment. The motion for a six monutha' hoist wasr thin read. Mr. McDOUGALL contended that the independerce of this House was a most im-- portant question, and without consideration of the cases alluded to, he believed the prin-- ciple itscif should be discussed, He did not think the mere good character of the Govern-- ment should be permitted to inflaance the House in this matter, HMe would vote for the resolution. t on. Nr. SINCLAIR said the more fact that such & practice had been permitted, or that gentlemen had acted honestly and consut ently while in the receipt of gilts from the Government, should'nt be accepted as argu-- ments for the continuance of the practice. It was wrong, for beyond question it tendod to eubvert the indezpendonce of the racipient of the gift, The Houss should endeavour to remove every stambling block which might tend to destroy ths good government of the country. He would support the original resgolutions. t Mr. OLIVER said tho old stereotyped ar-- gument had been brought against tuese resol-- utions' that th" practice compluined of h'd existed in thoe past .Bgvshould, thsrefore, be n, gentiemen opposite