The Ontario Scrapbook Hansard

Ontario Scrapbook Hansard, 15 Dec 1869, p. 1

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Hon., Mr. WOOD said this Government had notbing to do with the tish of the sea. 'The Minister of Marine and Fish (laugzhter) of the Dom:nion had charge of this mattor. Bir, Wilmot was in Ottawa last Session with specimens of bis fish, and brought the quss-- tion of pisciculture before the Government, and precured an appropriation in aid of his <ntorprise. & TIMBER ON ROAD ALLOWANCE3, Mr. FERGUSON moved an Address for a Statement showing the several amounts or appreximate amounts received by the Crown Lands Department, trom the sale or disposal of timber lying, growing or being on the gey. eral road allowances in the several Municipal Corporations of or in Ontario during the past three years ; the Corporations from which the said timber WA® Or, :8 being taken, and the fmes of the 589621 PEtF--s to whom the Mr, SCOTT(Grey), asked whether Govern-- mentisterd to mske appropriation of the pub-- lic funda of this Province to Samuel Wilmot, F:q., of Newcastle, to encourage the artifi-- clal propagation of fish in the lakes and rivers in this Provirce. The Starc' _3 Committce on Railways pre-- ronted the third report, atating that the vari-- ous Bil's had passed through Committsa, Concurred in, A'ty..Gen, MACBONALD hoped that this wou'd not become a precedert. There was ro recsasity for this extension, if hon. members would only attend to their busineas,. Corcurted in. Ecports were presented from the Commit-- tee on Standing Orders, recommendiog that an extension of time should be given to rail-- way Bills. Atty..Gen, MACDONALD iztroduced a Bill to crganize the districs of Parry Sound, which was read a first time; sacond reading to morow. The SPEAKE o'cleck. LECIESLATURE OF NTA COMMITTEE REPORTSY. PISCICULTURE, NEW BILL. Wrepzxesoir, Dec. 15. R took the chair at three PC -- (, 0 ECC GA VX VHUV OUVVVIUIR was shared, in the county ho (Mr. Blake) _ represonted, by _the Crown Lards agent. Theevidence showed that it wa not merely the opinion and belief of the sets tlers, but it was also shared by several of the agents in other counties, It was estab-- . lished by the clearest evidence in the case of his own county particularly, and in the case of other ceunties, that the agents represented to the inund'mg settlers that this was the effect of the Or er; and to use as nearly as he could the lar guage that had been used by the | settlers; he woald say that the impression | was that aithough they usually paid $2 an acre, it was virtually only $14, because | half a dollar of that price was given back | again in the expenditures upon works which otherwise the settlers would have to pay for themselves. _ Now, as ho stated on a former occasion! on which he addressed the House, it the sett/ers were able to show that these ' were the circumstances of purchass, they had a right to claim the money. This hy . pothens ¥ as eltablished. The seottlers pur-- chased on the faith of those statemonts, and they were as a fl§ht entitled to a return of the money, J appeared that . a | Mider'bje porfion ot the procoed' l of these manles hag po,, C18, Proceeds were the circumsts&nces had a right to claim the pothesis w as established, chased on the faith of the they were as a rioht _ 1 the facts of the case, the committee express-- -- ly understanding that their order did not re-- | quire them to offer any opinion as to what i the justice of the case should require, But the facts which were established by f the reports of the committee, he wished to bring under t:e consideration of l the House with regardi_to their correctnoss; | and if the report was adopted, he should sub-- | mit to the House certain resolutions founded | upon the report, He thought that the ro-- eult of the researches of the Committee was that in 1852, shortly beforethe same Act was passed, a new policy war inaugurated with respect to the vacant lands of the country. Shortly before that the School Lands had been appropriated to the extent of a million of ( acres, and there had been but very little sot-- | tlement upon them--in 1853 but one--tenth of them having been séttled. Under theso circumstances a policy was adopted of strict conditions of actual settlement, of a redusc-- tion in price, and of the reservation of & cer-- ; tain sum out of the price in order to accom-- plish the removal of that great obstruction | to gettlement, and to facilitate the settle-- ment of the country by the construction of rcads. That view was carried out by the Land Act, which authorized the ropayment ,' by the Government of acortain proportion of the purchase money for local improvement,. | Very soon after that the settlements in. | creased, the evidence proving thatnine--tenth | of the remaining School Lands were gold in | 18534 55, and there was a proportionate | increate in the settlemgnt of Crown Lands. | It appeared that the opinion of the settlers was shared, in the county ho (Mr. 'Bl'tlf'e) l'*PTf?.!Lentet'l,_ by '_the Crown sime w83 + 4§ BXpla trhat this l was a malter which was _ creating a great, G¢#2 of interest in --new | _ wunicipali?"s, The timber on road allow ;' ances wat Claimed by Government and by /. #be Muzricipalities, He had taken the trouble to lock through the Statutes to find _' to whom the timber really belonged. He | -- fousd that the municipalites possessed the ; power, and if so, Government had no right to | |\ _ claim the dues for timber on the rozd allow-- . |*/ apce, In one fownshin they had collegted | _ zo lees than $440 of these ducs fiow, it the . | n:umcxpalrmlthcritiel were expidctod to keep ; these public roads in repair, they should be allowed to claim the timber and materials ftor kecpicrg them in good order. He ho'l.)led 9}9 Goverrmeht would take the jast, fair right and honest view of the matter and mot only resign all claims to the timber on _ road aliowances, but return all dues colleoted \ _' from municipaiitiese (very unjustly in his | -- cpipion) and allow those who had to keep ! the roads in order, the moans of doing so. _ _| able on lands sold batiween the Act of 1853 and the iseue of 1861 of the Order in Council, | in which it was assimed--erroncously, he thought,--that the fund was withdrawn. That return was ordeted to be priated and distributed, and at an early period of the present session he had moved for a commit-- tee to irquire into the matter, and it had held a great many meetings and had examined a great many witnesses, and had presonted a | report of which it was now his intention to g move thke adoption. That report dealt with | Mr., BLAKE moiad that the report of the Relect Committee, to whom ware referred the petitiors relating to the Land Improvemont Fund, be adopted. ('In making this motion, be said that a Commitiee had been granted to enquire into the truth or not of the fact that t%e varicusdistricks had been gettled upon the faith of a reservation in the purchase morey of School and Crown Lands for losal improvements ; and if that statemort was fcund to be true that\the settlers of thezo ecunties were, not as b matter of favour at all, but as a matter of right, entitled to thst fund, ard that the sales which had taken place between 1853 and 1861 should be treat-- ed as made upon that understanding, and that the returns ahougl be made, He had moved _ in that ouse for returns of amounts received and still recoiv-- After some ferther discustion the motion i was carried. I Hon. Mr. RICHARDS said the timber criginally belonged to the Crown, and where licenses Lad been granted, except where the lards hsd been settled, the licentiats possess-- ed the right to cut the timber. Thess road allowarces not being settled, it would be a troach of faith on the part of the Govern-- went to Ceprive the licentiate of the fright of cutting the timber on them. Mr, COCKBURN rose to express his ap-- proval cf the views expressed by the hon. member for South Simcos. He hoped the Goverrment would do justice in this matter. Mr, CALSRAITiH was glad the hon, mem-- ber for South Simcos had brought up this question,. In many municipalities it required all the timber on the road allowances to kuild bridges and keep the roads in repair. LA ND IMPROVEMENT FU: ND, Bill (No. 62), to exemp$ from Municipal Taxation, for a certain poriod herein msn-- tioned, a Sugar Refinery, proposed to be evzeoted in the City of Toronto.--Mr. Wallic, 1 ill (No. 58), to enable the Corporation of the Town of Chatham to disposs of certain lands.--Mr. Smith (Keat). Fill (No. 57), to legalize, confirm and es-- tablish the re--survey of the town of Cha-- gx(sm, in the Province of Ontario.--Mr. Smith ent), Pil! (No,. 42), to provide for the conveyancs of land sold by the late Z. 8. M. Horsey, and to authorize the sale of certain village lots be-- ionging to his estate --Mr. Boyd. Eill (No. 48), to incorporate the Kingaton and Madoc Railway.--Mr. Strange. Fill (No. 50), respecting the Fair Ground of the County of Oxford,--Mr. Perry. The following Private and Local Bills were read a third time and passed :-- He explained that there were several parts of the county which were claimed by the Church, and rents were collected from sst-- tiers occupying them. He desired to have the claims investigated. 'The motion was cariicd. Mr, GOW made a fow remarks in support cf the motion,. The debate was then adjourned. DORCHBESTER GLEBES. Mr. BEATTY moved an address for coples of all Orders in Council affecting certain lands krown as the Dorchester (Glebes, and also all correspondence relating to the sams. Mir. BLAKE hoped the Government wounld rot diop the qucsstion, lt would be well to adjoura the debate. In reply to the hon member for Grey's remarks respecting the thirtecn resolutions, he wished to say that the intelligent electors of South Bruce, at any rate, took an interest in these abstract questions, and so did the electors in Grey as their representative would find to his cost at ithe next elecmuon,. Mr, McDOUGALL said all who had spoken on this question were representatives of wess ern corstituercies He, as a representative of an eastern constituency intoreated in this question, wished to say that tho settlers in eastern part of the country looked for justice and an early settlemont of their claims., Hon _ Mr. WOOD said this was a maticr which should be woelil con-- sidered ba ore arriviag at aoy de-- cision with :sespect to it A long time had elapsed since the alleged promiss: td been made the ssttlers, and it would be weoll to weigh the evidence and examine tho cireum-- starces carsfully. In anticipation of this, the Goverrment had taken up the question and were disposed to deal fairly with the scttlers,. Mr, LAUDER was glad this} matter was being prosecuged. 'The ssttlerg looked upon this matter with much greatsr interest than on the brilliant discussion on fie 13 resolu-- ticns. They folt that it was amattor waich -- affected them more immedistely. He was | glad the matter had received the favourable . notice of the Governmeant. NMr. SCOTT (Grey) said the settiors in the constituency which he represented looked upon this as a right, and claimed as a right to kave this money returned. . Mr, SINCLAILR said a goneral feeling pre-- ' cailed among the settlers that they had been | treated with great injustice, He hoped the | Coverrment would unot delay in renderiog justice to the wronged sottlers. Hse hopat the repert would be printed as scon as nos-- sib'e ard the matter settled this session. | ,iloy of the Governmp@nt, which th ~the courtry, which the Orders in * which the representafions of the ago; -- cated. This w the posit urged but it woull nbt be the nscers ~ sequene» of the adoptlon of the repo; report mert ly atated scircumstance case, and is would be for the House with the resointion as in its wisdom ; gee fit. W ithout furfgher remarks he that the resclution adopted. Atty,--Gen,. MACDONALU; héped thi« measure wou'ld not be preuefi"till all tha evidence relating to it whi{oh'hnd been ad duced sbould he published. { The hon, Trea:-- urer bad rot lost sight of this important questlor when unrging the claims o' Ontaris betore tha ariitrators. Government wou'ld not be open to the charge of having omitted to move in the matter. Mr, MONTELTH said he had mot a larzo Mr. RBAYS said this was a simple matter of justice, and he hoped the Governm»nt would rot throw any obstacle in the way of repatricg the wrong done the settlors. tween Ortario and Quebec should be setiled, that this money weuld be returned to tho settlers _ But even though the funds is the treasury should not bo swelled by the result of that arbitration, there was a surplus on band, and a portion of it shou!d go to paying the claims ot the settlers. uL an. 1._._ _ "*""AJ & PUOBGLOLG He did nc# think the hon. member for Bruce had any rea:on to complain that the Govera-- ment had not criven the matter the consider-- ation which was due it. Hon. Atty..Gen. M&ACDONAL was important that the evidence -- submitted to the Houke. 'This wa sual me«rure, and in a Rhatter of th tude an© rmportsnce the ouse sh; ossersicn of what they Row only _Eeal'"Y- Government woull be pr deal with the report and resdlution: hon. memker gave rotice 0 ov the eviaerce should be considered matter which would throw light on ject _\'v?uld' hv published as early as wh Mr, BLAKE--O, PRIVATE BILLSY. 1i MACDONALD: L --~" °00 HOuse to daga) _[in its wisdom it mighs her remarks he moved P mnelh ce ns ; I don't complain of _ _ O Nes 1301-- the position )p,, t be the necessary copn. n of the report Tae e circumstanges of the Lis it -- ®y k > ~~ 00 TY d atter of this le Flouse shoul. y Bow only ky woull be prap; d resdlutions tt tice 6 ()ving1 ennsidarad -- 1e Urders in CJ\;; «1° ou ons of the agents inq;' ACDONALD saiq it : evidence should be --_ This was an unu. atter of this magni-- e V\¥iouse should ba in y Bow only knew by woull be prapared to 1 res@lutions that the flce oAmoving, after _considered, ; Every ow light on this sub. vh'ped thi« I till all tho As possible r for Bruce b a large | purchasad wa Laods AW 0o ,, | AFTER RECES§.) * ioy \__|_ Mr. CARNEGIE moved that Mr. Gal--_ braith be added to the Select Committes on Bills, Carrie4, ¥ x sA ' PETERBOROUGH. 3 _ _ Mr, CARNEGIE moved that the Bill No. ._| 54, to consolidate the debt of the town of We NP . _ | Peterborough, and to authorize the issue of |__ _ _---- ) debentures on the security of Town Property | _ _ + _ |and other purposes, be not now -- read (~" <Wg _ _\ba third time, but referred back to a Com-- §% mittee ofthe whole House, to consider an |-- °_ _ Hor, Mr. CAMERON said he hal no objection _ to that; but this was amatter which more properly came witkin the province of the Dominion (Government. There was rno doubt that the law was very | gemerally disregarded throughout the Pro-- | En'nce, and something should be donse to en-- orce it. tc The Fill was read agccon'd time ts'?;'n"m'. 1 j wa cloat further remark.gnr? l'(ift'.rl'm;m\.asflt:qb '.(". 1 Committce, consisting of tho Hon : Bi;h:;dl. Mesers, Blake, Galbraith, Oliver . and the mover, Mr. BLAKE said he remombered that the hon. Atty General had stated that * a man was not prepared to swear to everything that he might say." (Laughter). Atty Gen,. MACDONALD admiltal that he made sucha statement in his * celabrat=? speech at Brooklin ;" and be was propared 5) repeat it. Bill No. 102, to amend and extend the pro-- ' visions of the Act cap. 30, Con. Stat. U. C., respecting interplesding (Mr, Lauder), was read a second time, and referred to Hon. Messre. Richards, Cameron, and Messrs. Lount, Clarke, and the mover. SOLEMN DECLARATIONS. Mr. GREELY moved the second reading of Bill No. 27, to permit solemn decizuatio=s to be substituted for naths in certain cases. l The remarks of the hon. gentleman in ox planation were inaudible in the galiery. ; Mr. SCOTT (Grey) thought is was rather | bard to deny the people the right to build | their own harbor, After some iscussion, the Bill was read a secord time and referred to a Seleoct Com-- mittee, composed of Hon,. Mr Cameron, Mesers. Scott (Obtawa), Lount, Pardee, Mc Dougall, Fraser, and the mover. REGISTRATION OF BIRTHS, &c. Mr. BOYD wished to know if the House bad ary objection to hbis moving, in the ab-- sence of Mr. Pardee, the second reading of the Biil (No, 101) to smend 32 Vic., cap 30, of the Statetes of Oatario, intituled ** An Act to provide for the Registration of Births, Merrisges anrd Deaths®" After some discussion, the Bill was read a eecond time, and referred to a Select Com-- mittee, composed of Hon. Mr. Cameron, Mesers. Scott (Ottawas), Boyd, Coyne, Beatty, and the mover. Mr, LAUDER moved the second reading of Bill (No. 99) to amend the Act chapter sixty--nine of the Consolidsted Statutes of Upper Canada, relating to the holding and conveying of real estate by the religious bodies mentioned therein. Mr. SCOTT contended this was a private matter, and should be dealt with by this Legislature. He would not press the mat-- ter, however, if the Government would not sanction it. The motion was ultimately withdrawa. RELIGIOUS BODIE3. Atty.--Gen, MACDONALD said once this Geverrment should Gerive the right to con-- struct their own harbours, the Central Gov-- ernment might refuse to construct any more such public works in the Province: He for cre was unwilling to test the matter while there was no tribunal to bring it before. If the hon, member for Grey insisted on press-- ing this measure, and the House should pass it, it would ke senrt to the Dominion Parlia-- ment and very likely would be disallowed. It would be bitter for the hon. member to bring it before the Central Government,. and, if they should decide that it was a matter to be deals with by the Local Lepislatura, this House would then take it up This was un-- questionably an interference with the rights of the Deminion Parlizament. Nr, BLAKE said this was a diffiult sub. ject to deal with. Last session a Bill was {:rought before the Dominion House, and the question was then discussod whethcr such small matters should be dealt with by the local or the central govern-- ment,. lt was decided that the central Government had the right to deal with thoss matters, 1t was extremely difficult that there should be conflicting legislation in such matters. Hon. Mr. McMURRICH said there was +o conmiparison between the two. Toronto Harbor was very differsnt from the mouth of a small creek, Hovr. Mr. CAMERON said he could not se any difference between making this claim, and the Corporation of Toronto clsiming the control of Toronto Harkor. tolis. Mr SCOTT (Grey) moved that the H go into Committeo of the Wholy on porcast roposed resolutions with reference to the f.vy of tolls at Collingwood, On making this motion he kzew there was an objsction urged sgainst it, that it should be doait with by the Dominion Government., In this case, however, it was a small local work that the municipality proposed to construct at the mouth of Beaver River. It was rather hard that the municipality should not be allowed to construct this work, and collect tolls therefrom. Fon. Mr CAMERON said he had no ob jection to the measure, butit did not coms within the controlofthis Legialature. Allmat. ters relatinfi to trade and navigation were, by the 10th clause of the Union Act, con-- trolled by the Dominion Government, The honourable member should bring bis Bill before the House at Ottawa. Mr. SCOTT (Grey) said this was purely ccal work. No aid was asked from the Dominion Government. The people only wished to corstruct a small local work with thfiir own morey, and to collect their owa HARBOUR TOLLS,

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