The Ontario Scrapbook Hansard

Ontario Scrapbook Hansard, 18 Dec 1869, p. 1

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PETITIONS. The following petitions were presented : Four, praying for the establishment of an Asylum for the blind. Mr, Beatty presented four pstitions pray: ing that no charter be granted for the con-- struction of a railway from Glencos to Nia-- gara River. Mr, Strange--From the City Council of Kingston praying for certain amendments to the Assessment Law. LEGISLATURE OF ONTARS, Baturday, Dec. 18. The SPEAKER took the Chair at elsyen o'clock, Mr, Pardee presented the report of 'the P f Select Committee on Births, Matrriages and _ Bill No. 45, to enable Donald 'Alexander Macdonald to construct a canal in the Town-- ship of Kenyon.--Mr. Ferguzon, Bill No. 68, to confirm certain side roads in the Township of Tilbury East, and to pro-- Vide for the detgning of other road allowances :Ed ltix;el in the said Township.--Mr, Smith '(Kent. REPORT OF COMMITTEE, PRIVATE IBILLS, following Bills were read a third Bill No. 95, to amend the Act of Incor: poration of the Cobourg Cametery Company, and to extend to said Company the provi-- sions of chapter sixty--sevenof the Consoli-- dated Statutes of Upper Canada, and for other purposos.--Mr. Fraser. Bill No 69, to amend the Act 31 Vic , c3p 40, intituled "An Act to incorporate the Toronto, Grey and Bruce Railway Co.." aad the Act 32 Vic, cap. 82, amending the sams. _--Fon. Mr. Cameron, Bill No. 8$8, to amend an Act, intituled, § An Act for the relief of the representatives of the late David B. Ogden Ford.--Mr. Fitzsimmons. Bill No. 55, to apgoint Trustees for certain | lands belonging to the Presbyterian Church, . in connexion with the Churcoh of Scotland, in | the Townships of Asphodel and Dummer, in | Bill No. 107, to provide for the organiza-- | tion of the Territorial District of Parryf Scund,--Attorney--General Macdonald, { HOUSE IN COMMITTEE, | Bill (No. 31), To authorize the Port Hops, Lindsay and Beaverton Railway Compauy to change the namo of thsir Company, and to extend their line of railway, and for other purposes.--Mr, Williams (Darham). Bill (No. 63), To amond the Act to Incor-- porate the Petorborough and Haliburton Railway Company.--Mr, Carnegle. Bill (No. 47), To leg;!ize and confirm the survey made fby F. F. Pasamore, Esquire, Provincial Land Surveyor, of the KFirst, Second, Third and Fourth Concessions (old survey) of the township of Melancthon, in the county of Grey.--Mr. Lauder. Bill (No. 53), To authorize the construction of a railway from the City of Hamilton to Caledonia, with power to extend the sams.-- Mr. Williams (Hamilton). On 'the motion that the House should go into Committee on '* Bill 43, To incorporate the Canada Air Line Railway Company," Bill (Ne. 104), To amend An Act passed in the Session held in the Twonty--sixth year of the reign of Her Majesty Queen Victoria, and chaptered forty.--Mr. Paxton, THE RIVAL RAILWAY SCIHEME3, be taken up first, He explained that his reazon for wishing such a motion was this. When these Bills-- 36 and 43--first appeared on the Orders of the day Bill, 36 had the pre-- cedence over the other, The promoter of Bill 43 alleged that they so appeared through szome mistake, by which the Orders were transposed In answer to tlat he (Mr. M ) said that Bill 36 should have been reported first, He found that the rule whore Bills, just such as these, woere concerned--where there were competing Bills, the consideration of the preamble of the first rule was postpon-- ed until after the evidence in favour of the other Biil was also heard. The preamble of Bill 43 was considered beforo the other was taken up. But no harm had resulted from that. 'Fha object of this rule was, if the Committeo shoul!ld sce proger t» reject one of the Bills, after hearing the evidence in fa-- vour of both, they could do so. But the Committee in this case did not zsee proper to rejsct oither of the Bills, but passed both. When the Bills came up for a second reading No. 36 appeared first on the Orders of tha day. The Bills were read without opposi-- ticn, and he certainly expected they would be found in the same position in the Ordors of to--day ; but to his surprise he found them transposed. He now rose to have his Bill placed wheroe it should be on the Orders of the day. Ho held that no officer of this House had a right to override the orders of the House. lf an officer cof this House were allowed to change the orders of the House, and place them as he thought proper, there wourld be no security to members of this House at all, He might transpose them jast as he pleased, and hon. members couid easily see how any hon. gentleman might be misled by such a change, because his action might be very different from what it would bse if the change were intimated to him,. Unles# the House would place this Bill in the place which it should occupy--in the place which it occupied at the second reading, they would be establishing a most dangerous precedent in pexmittin{ officers of this }gouse to show partial l& to any member whom they pleased. He therefore moved that Bill 36 be taken up first, Mr. RYKERT said the hon, membor for Bothwell ou'%ht not to talk about establishing fireoedents ter his vote the other day to send is Bill back to the Committee, with instruc-- tions to consider the preamble proved. Now, the facts in this case were, that Bill 43 was considered and reported first, and, having been reported tirst,should be considered first by the House. He claimed it was in the wrong place at the second reading, and he spoke to the Clerk about it He also spoke to the Attorney--General about it, and tfio hon. gen-- tleman told him it would be made all right next day. He(Mr. R.)could not see wh" the hon. member for Bothwell had brougl.. such a motion before the House. Mr. GOW said there was no manceuivre in this matter at all. The Clerk of the House bad siwply made & mistake in placing 36 first at tge second reading, and he did per-- fectly right to change it to its proper place. "Mr. BAYS',.u one of the supporters of Mr. Thomson's & TV., | | 2000 °C _"COC C PCRIAROLE -- OVVARIUVIL, -- AILG (Mr. McC.) hoped the House would not par-- mit the hon member to detain it azgain in this stage, Mr, McCALL said the hon. member for ; St. Catharines had usedextraordinary means > in placing his Bill before the other on the . Orders of the day. When the Bill was up | fox: a second reading he should have made his ' objections, if he had any; but he did not. It | seemed to be some manccuvre of his, and he | had a great many manceuvres, _ (Order, | order ) He had succesded in putting No. | 36 a stage behind on a former occasion. Ho Mr, McKELLAR moved that item No. 36 14i 1 13, as one of the suppor a's Bill, said if the Orders were to be ) _Clerk, it f would place hon. members in an awkward | position. The promoters of Bill 36 want-- ed their Bill first on the Orders of the day, and they used legitimate means to obtain for it th::;odtion. It had precéedence at the second ing, yet the promoters of the Bill allowed it to go without opposition. And now it came up in the second position on the Orders. He believed the Clerk had made no mistake--he had acted under in-- structions, t Mr. BLAKE said having regard to the fact that without objection the Bills wore allowed to be read in their order at the se-- cond reading--having regard to the fact that no objection was urged against it at the time, he thought it was impossible for any hon. member to say that they should not occcupy the same position still. Mr. SCOTT (Ottawa) said there was an Intense rivalry between those linss. 'The Bill bhad been on the Orders on Thursday in the same order as yesterday, and no mem-- ber could alter the order of the Bills on the Orders of the Day without giving two days' notice, Mr.; CUMBERLAND said that it was time ' that the House was relieved of possible pa-- | tronage at the hands of its officers, If i: | was necessary that this should exist, it w .: | better that they should kuow it. He would tell hon. members that they should watch, : and not trust. Some subordinate official had | taken upon himself to alter the mode in which the Railway Bills passed, and the Chairman had left the matter in the hands of | the clerk of Railway Bills, and a case had occurred this morning. He thought that they should take some action in the mattor, Mr, CARNEGIE said it ssemed to be much cry and little wool in the matter. Mr, PARDEE thought it was a very im-- portsnt question. Attorney--General MACDONALD said that the hon, member for Lincoln had spoken to him with reference to the subjoct, and he had desired him not to raise a discussion, as he did not wish the tims of the Rouse occu-- %led with the discussion, He thought the ouse had a porfect right to amend Its Or-- ders. If it was admittod that the first Bill reported should have precedenca, then the present position of the Bills was justified, The Committee reported the Bill of the Ca-- nada line first, and if the order of the Bill had been in error on the previous occasion, 3:(:1 House had a perfect right to amond the rder. Mr. SCOTT (Ottawa) contended that he was in the right, and that the report of & Railway Committee could not over--ride the decision of the House itself. A division was taken on Mr, McKellar' ' amendment, with the following result :-- éYEAS --Messrs Blake, Boyd, Calvin,Carnegie, Christle, 'larke, Cockbura, Code, Cook, Cumberland, Kvans, Fraser, Galbraith, Greely, Hays, Monteith, Murray, McCall (Norfolk), McColl, (El&in McDougall, Mc-- Kelar, McMurcrich, Pardee, Read, Richards, Scott + (Ottawa), Sinclair, Smith (Kent), Smith (Leeds and Grenville), Smith (Middi'esex), Strange, Springer, Tett, Wigie--34. NAays--Messrs. Barber, Baxt>r, Beatty, Boulter, Cameron,Carliag,(London), Carling,(Huron), Clemens, Colqguhoun, Corby, Craig (Glengarry), Craig, (Russell), Crosby, Currie, Fyre, Ferrier, Finlayson, Fitzsim-- mw"s, Gow, Grabam (Hastings), Grahame (York), Hooper, Lauder, Lutona, Macdonald, Matchett, Mo Gill, McKim, Oliver, Paxton, Perty, Rykert, Scott (Grey), Record, Sextor,. Swinarton, Wallis, Williams (Durbham), Willisams, (Hamilton), Wilson--40, The House then went into Committee on -- Mr. RyLkort's Bill, Clause 1 was agreed to without discussion. On clause 2 as follows :--The said com-- pany hereby incorporated, shall have full power under this Act to construct a railway from such poict on the line of the Great Western Railway, as may be found most | eligible, at Glencoe, passing on such routs as | may be selected, through the town of St. | Thomas, and thence passing through or near | Simece, thes through Cayugza, connscting with the Buffalo and Lake Huron Railway near Canfield or Dunnville, and thence"ex-- tending to some point on the Niagara river, near Fort Erie, but the foregoing powers shall not be exercised until after the 1st day of March rext, and unless the Erie and N lagara Extension Railway Company shall by that | time have made default in organizing their | said Company or in commencing their said . Railway. ; Mr. KYKERT moved that all the woods after "but the following powers" should be struck cut. He said the rider would delfeat the Bill if it was carried. The promoters of the Bill could get a "bogus" organization, and thus defeat the Bill. He thougcht that the people along the line of country, who so greatly desired a road, ought not by the adoption of this rider, to be de rlveg of a chance of gaining their object, ang he there-- fore moveg that the rider be struck out. Mr, McCALL (Norfolk) said the Great Western had on two occasions deteated the charters that had been obtained in order to ive the district a road. The Great Western gad gone to Parliament to deprive the pso-- ple of their rights. 'Two years ago the Groat the rn hall way ounew g::;ng of a charter | for thi.p d!ltrict' %'welve constituencies reprosonted in the House desired to place the line in the hands4 of one independent company, 1; they ex. tended the power of this Corporation Over the district, they would have the monopoly, anq would place one quarter of the Province of Ontario in the hands of a Company, which bad used the most unscrupulons means to obtain that power, If they based thei, op. position two years ago on the ground that | the district did not require it, they now came forward on entirely different grounds, and asked for a charter over the same district. He hoped the good sense of th» Housa would not yield up to the Great Western | the power over the whole of the district, Mr. WILSON, while he a Fith s | of the views of the hon. memgbr:';o":qh COs thought that the ri M iolnife g he rider would defeat th chance of the district to obtain a railwa f ZIbere had been, he thought, unscrupulo M pess on both sides, proe. Mr MoKELLAR said so long'as h opportunity of getting a road t%serv: ;:::')w.z part of the district and also the other parts of the Gistrict, he supported it. The charter of two years 'fif was rendered perfectly in-- operative by the gauge which was forced upon them. They had rever heard of any-- thing before like granting a second charter over the sameline, and hs thought that they shou'ld net give it to an existing company. Farmers in Michigan could get their grain to Montreal cheaper than the farmers at To-- . romnto, It was ressorable on their part, rot to ask for a grant to. the lst of March to build their line, but the first of July, as the Bill gave the Gresat Western two years to fulfil their charter, Hewas wiliing to place in the hands of the Provincial Secretary the sum of $200,000 in gold as security for their doing what they bad promizsed. He protested, and ke believed the House would protest against the district being handed over to the mo-- nopoly of the Great Western, He therefore moved an ameondment, that the lst day of March be struck out and the 1st day of July te substituted therefor. Mr OLIVER eupported the Great West-- ern Bill, but said that he should propose the substitution of one year in the place of two years in the Bill, ss the time allowed for the organization of the Compauy. Hon. Mr McMURRICH said he voted for the preamble of the Bill on the understand-- ing that this rider should be adopted. If it was not so, he had been tricked, 2 4 c4 l 4o Abrna Avoasts ioi caipmin t tape n ul Mr RYKERT said there was no such un-- derstanding. C gl' they than several yeai® CpU« Mr. TROW thought that is was not right to grant a charter for a line over & district where a charter already existed. It was only fair that they shou'ld allow Mr. Thomson the extended time to organize his Company. Mr. FRASER was a member of the Com-- mittee two years ago, and he thought that Mr. Thomson had been hardly _ sreated. He agreed with the Provincisl Secretaty that if he had applied a yoar 880. he thought that there couig have been uo objection to the alteration of the gauge Mr. WILLIAMS (Zawilton) said he did not believe that the Great Wester2 would Duild this road unlees it was a ©eCSE!, Unless is was made, the Michiga" Central would have to take their freight 0n the other side of the lake. The Great Westerd® has had over 400 care 'looked for two mOnth$ at the Suspension Sridge ; and unless they had greater faciliti--«, the through graffic would, as he had rai', go over the other side of the Jake. -- BHBo iii not oppd®® Mr. Thm Mr. WILLIAMS (Zawilton) not believe that the Great We build this road unlees it W3 Unless it was made, the Mich would have to take their freight side of the lake. _ The Grest had over 400 cars 'looked for t the Suspension Sridge ; and uD Mr MoMURRICH said he thouzht

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