The Ontario Scrapbook Hansard

Ontario Scrapbook Hansard, 24 Jan 1871, p. 7

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been. at and in [Ha be um mend Con-iitio; Hon. l me; -___ as um can b adb ut "I ttttd no t natt Ar '80 I? k out r 38 was 1srrieil. tr. itTotpotated Elks" vacan' , 16rlt , be taken," were adopted. and cc" amended was then agreed to. o " n in; but had been vcd. n 3' i, rial he would desire to draw t, 1i the tlouse and the Govern- "5.er that had engaged the at. 'd public press. le, had been , any: number of the patients of LL 1:53.50 Asylum had been prog. iir.v typhoid fever; that one of m ' dred, 3nd tut one had been :2! for some do" This state of Md been attributed to defective d bad water. He hoped the ', amid see that something was edy the condition of these unfor- _ UR" THE LONDON LUNA. Ir.', ASYLUM. . 'Eiscnsaic: Mr. GAMER-'33 nd the clause, so " to leave it, rd the townships out ofwhieh jon is formed, with the Con utr oysalize the "cement. Ewen: wu than adopted, and striking cat the provision frat which tho assessment- may be , be the one adopted by the ; of the naming committees on l c. uzlaays, and ot the spacial w the Municipal Act and tha. Lil.i, were presented. f'Af,ILING said that Iletter _ n by the Superintendent of varhun, stating that a drain had up. and that the water had "a of the Wells. An oftiasr had 31": asylum to make enquiries r. report. The otiitter had re. would make a report to him Ailing) It was true phat " (l,. béen taken ill and 61:24, but sin; of what (1130510; an_d five or M, but were now gstnng well. wl been repa'i'od and the didi. i {-1 asked if the report would c information an to the sanitary the as; lam. UAR-LING mrludin the affirm. 1,ll (h'ortolkr--From William , 3:1 others, ot Ttttttrs, pray- Uri» and Bill to incorporate the ', J ilauiway Company (Hunted), kl "A " OF COMMITTEES. a: Sub sections DH e Government have taken, '0': c, any steps for defining the ', between tho Provinces: of Ontario: - 6 I'll ZGIE thought this gave too the trustees 0et ro Mparunent, thereby as on such Indian lands dose enjoyed by new} " omen". 26 were adopted, and on 3m: to differences. betcrrean chars tn be settled by the a the appeal therefrom, thought the decision of a a he should not be subject _ nrxcn who was not a legal. Longht the clause shenld re control as LTITION S. u opted, and. also clause 22, said there was no doubt many crusted for we 01k) W ook the chair at 3:10 "I " i to 3:11:11"; tg " liCd " m: my, J a, 'l IONS. it an! i0 lilo' Mo 0 "lo ya. Lt. " on 2-33 I not shit f y itself in this matter, and by my lrg this V large salary pay him for work for which the Home ought not to pay at all, They knew the diiliculty of retracing their tste; ." in such matters; if they once as- sc uted to thig clause they-would find it difli. [ cult to mums the salary again, He had no doubt that the duties performed by Mr. Bolton, hrirg judicial ones, ought not to be i paid for . hy the Prosinee at all. There was this further consideration in the matter t the lststute did not give them the power ot ap- pointing judges and compelling the Dominion (l'iiii'ti?t'di, to pay them afterwards. The IAttorney-General might well have created 'the offio of Judge in Chambers and then l have allowed the Dominion Government to have appointed its officer, and then it would dearly have devolved upon the Dominion to pay his m'ery. But when the hon. gentle. man chc: e to srrogate to himself to appoint an offur.1, he thought he would find it dlffi, cult to cake the Dominion pay the "ht The dilCuity was consequently a litt e deeper th. o." the hon. gentleman had stated. The d'ill'r-iltles of the case were, he believed, _ within "we scope of that chamber to deal with. l: was only necessary that they should be careful not to appoint oifieera and then war: the Dominion to pay their sale- riee. lie hoped the House would not take the step cseired. . Mr, 1:. K21 :nrlcrsed what, had been sold ty tha _ _ h .-I ven as to the very satisfactory way in I' l in, Mr. Dalton 111:1 discharged his duties, a l. also as to the onerous nature of those tl; F 4 T hat tilicer no doubt had been opening to an ofliett with certain defined duties 'e,' tested, and other and import- ant dutl, _ hul been subsequently added,: and there we no question es to his claim for compenaahzm for the discharge of these extra duties. tit various questions arose on this matter m pungent. This entirely dispropop tionste tr" annotation for the third offiee with which it x as now proposed to invest Mr. Dalton ms proposed in consequence of his holding. z-..-x;ther cffice, for his servicesin com nectioe mm which he received no psy. If It was rt.,Vr.t that they should pay Mr. Dalton for the e ark he was doing " clerk or judge in Chem o-rs, let the House pay him; and not beat about the bush in the miserable we proposed. Let them not pay him this high remune: Men for performing duties which were wax th only about $10, because by doing so they would be paying him for doin' somethmrg else._ _ He hoped the House would tc 8 qt i "hath: Dalton renderu Damn; . "and y appoinn be a q _ Mr. IJ. 0031111.. Government to appoint an addi. tion! jo LC) I f the Dominion Government swam _ .1 ct..' admtional judge, it would than be Sq ". -2. D. whrther Ontario would pay Mr. L'.. a. for his services. It; would bs cpen for v', xz-ideration whether the Dominion Gtsert., Lt were not called upon to my for the tit," T: of an offien. whoss appointment. theyba; , moi upon the province. In the meanti '. C 't would be well to see that, Mr. Dalton mu laid for the duties he so effie,1. ently Cl waged, rather thm to log hi. "nice" per dition'd shall Im Queen'» Mr. B low this tion st , of tur: " 3 gci sumo _ Act. yc, of (lisp: would i olerk's d p a was to prov aiding 9mm mien W , home. LI wot', Atty 1.808261 tttt he Ema went i_nto magnum on Bill Ue d tl, c Luv rplatmg to Elsmtion Petition? sul for {twang more effectmlly for iii', 'iiGtr't', L. , cog-rapt practxces at Election: foe the Legulntxve Assembly ot Ontario - Hall Att) .0'cn. Macdonald. . Mr. lih. " in the chair. m- o,cicut clauses having been passed ' 33.1" J x'.(:cn. Micuonazu. Mr. E m in the chair. The "mus clauses having been planed, ittryi, MACDONALD moved the ad. union cl a gimme to the offatst--- Pint $i,000 shall be roll t? the Clea-3 ot the Court of weed» J', ca, m commoner: with this Act. Mr. TH . Iii-1 said he did not intend to at. low this ;_..-;...;w to, be passed without opponi- hon "a 3;;t;!_ta Huge. Ihtt practical etfect of the sc'. "ij:,""," y,c",'r's1y?yr' past experience - rss': , 11.3.1. the oftictal would receive Atty..', inn. MACDONALD said that the appointuut of Mr. Danna as clerk in chem- bers was at the suggestion of the J u'iges of the thrpinior Comte, and, at the time, he had no doubt the? what was propaaed by them 3 would he quite proper and wlthin the scope _ ot their power b do. In the next place, he 3 had no -s" Motion that compensation was to i be expuricd for the. eel-vices from the Pro. 1 Vince m. .21 :lrcut, a month after the appoint- ment. 1." rlvmurml to the demand at the I time, 2.1 J, said that the appointment was nys4p by. 1.14;! yy!.rveroi1yts.t.N oi the judges. m main}. 3. ihlemtnt--he had prepared and carried a 13.2], prepared at the iiuggestion of tuiudire, and the remuneration consequent upon which he eXpected was to be paid by the Dom'nion Government. Mr. Dalton threatened to resign last you, and Mt path- on!" Was he 1 Attorney-General) that thly Vince of Ontario should not be compzomued, that he had not paid my "be? for the you 1870. Pts, however, propoe to :eaoznpenee Mnlhlitn by this Bill. m asked the Home not to embmm the Government in cihhs matter. N lations were tto1ng on 2711:}th the two "f,r,'e'd'llui; bad in ths meantime it wee hi hly advisable that the 4 present Manse shows carry. . i . A Mr, BOYD aid it was not; right to smug. tle Into this Bill a provision with regard to the payment of Mr. Dalton. The question uah.ieltttti.g sin] had nothing to do {The m " h c 5LC00 for each case. The .s were eniirely ministerial, and piuirm the the proper way wan 1w his remuneration on . scale of o. .yd5 would be, in his opinion, ': muneration for his duty in ttaah 1:9 outsudo $50. If the remuner- n', accozdiug to. a scam cf fees, it i ;;-2.'.e proportion to the amount 1c,/raties in comee.ctiort with this supp?c.ing there were four 9380! i;:USe at an electwn, the c11rek J' then dropped- yr/NON PETITIONS. ll, AUKOJS ALD explained the .'rris hip. remuneration. m said J would recollect tint it was 3, to was an Act appointing u Named duties semi judieial,ahd he. had applied for an Increase the duties he Watt dischsrging ctio of the Bench. It had at the duties Ind been so ably :1; it was dittismit to refuse the . axha tsttrrpensation. It would for the Dominion Go Jermnent r-y should not pay Mr. his "wives, which were 's."'soty by the failure of 'lt, done. Irhrcse, stating that u believed the Ottewa (a. vtftitTV at should pay the salary. Mr BLAKE said ii this Guverirn,sai; l mum raped the PM! and Reeve the Otbma , "on errment to fill the ot':ieo, they weal-1 {in l the nine uni pay the salary. Hon Mr. MCMURRICH said it would be l beau ftr thits Gowrmntnt tolcee the $1,000 ( than pay it in this roundabout way. i The clause was carried an a division. The Committee rose and repenad the Bill. The report was ordered to be received on Tuesday next. S'IIHZNDIARY MAGIS {RAMs IN PAR. K! SOUND AND 'tHUNoElt BAY. ' Hon. ms MACDONALD moved the House 1 into committee, Mr. Hays in the chair, on the resolutions respecting Naipcmiiry Magie- ' hates in the Territorial Dietzicta of Parry Sound and Thunder. Bay. The ATTORNEY-GEN Filth L moved that ' each of the Stipcanliary Maarstrstes receive i the annual sum of $1,200. Untied. The Committee rose and reported. Hon, J. S. MACDONALD moved tint the Hyatt, on t. future day, he referred to I committee at the whole. Carried. 'I'ELIIITHRML DISTRICT OF THTS. DER BAY. Hon. J. S. MACDONALD moved the Home into cozzrmittoe--Mr. Batty in the chair- on the Bill to pruvide for the organi- zation oi tua terrisorial district ot Thunder The ccmmittee rose and reported the Bill, and asked have to sit; age in. COL'JT OF CMASCERY. The House went into eoautdttee (Mr. tha. hame, ot York, in the chair), on motion of Attornrs.0onera1 Macdonald, on following Court of thaw. in L'izami Sum of ' Hon. J. Fl MACDOX ICD moved that tha sum of $3,000 be paid annually out of the Consolidated Revenue ttt the Master in Or- dinary. Mr. BLAKE maid he had great mtisfaction in unworthy, the adoption of this resolution. He had long felt the serious inconvenience in wozkin2 the court under the old a: rangermutt. He had no doub§ but that in Fae matter cf fees Mora, the tippointytear, of the Master would he found to work most benelidally; for, not looking at any higher interests, the mere pecuniary results of obtaining the Ber. vices of I man able to discharge itslegei km l nesu, and fund its face. would be found big. 1y beiefeial, The sum proposed as a gal " was a. very moderate one forthe servicca of ltr, gentleman who had been appointed Master m Ordinary. He (Mr. Blake) had great pleasure in agreeing very cordially with the Attor. ney-General as to the capacity of the gentle" man he was so fortunate as to secure for the office. T he expectations be had raised while at the bar had been fully realized, by the ex- perience of the protest/lou,. since he attained his pretent poeition Hon. J. S. MACDONALD said he knew little cf Mr. Bnyk: porrorr1lly, and never had 3 dozen of words with him, But he had reason to know who would best fill the offisa. It had been suggested to him (the Attorney- General) that Mr. Boyle was the best man, and, without any consultation with the firm of wh!ch Mr. Boyle was a member, he (the Attorneytr'ety7a1) had solicited his amept- ance of the, oflico; and he was proud to any that the fillirrg, oi the offiett lead given great satisfaction to the bar Ile would my a few Words as to Mr. Taylor, who was to be appointed referee. Mr. Ta) 'sor had formerly been secretary of the judges, and his decisions had been called in question rs to Icgty)ity by the hon. member for South Bruce, He (the Attorney-General) wirhtd, however, to have. the Opinion of the judges on the matter, no matter what hie own opinion might be. In bringing In his Enter the internal arrangements of the Cont of Chancery, ha had 'submitted the suggestions maths by the judges. ./ They .dld not admit that they were wrong Mt appomt- inn Mr. 'l'avlor as secretary. . 1trht,,ryrPA't,. 3131111 HOD. J, S. LiACDONALD said he wo in a dilemma on the subject. It Mr. Dalton were cot paid for the past you, and the du. ties ho would have to perform um, year what was to be done? Would the DisdiiG', Government pay him for the" "Wk" ti m (Attorney General) would suggest to the com. mittee to let the matter stand over for tug you; and at the meeting of the Equgs next on, it would b3 commend. The pau. Ill' was that the Dominion Government 1',elt1 uitimately pay the salary. own opinion might be. In mmgwg m his Bill for the internal arrangements of the Carri; of Chancery, he had submitted the suggestions mule by the iailgo, i may am ing Mr. Taylor as secretary. the new bffi Ms, that a! referee, was only giving effeet to the power the judges insisted they had to dole Sate certain duties to the Secretary. The new tdice would have a salary attached to it of $2000 , year, and be wauld therefore move that the second blank in the resolu- tions u filled up with tw'sum. Mr. BLAKE add that It the Attoyney- _ q L- um made! ishia Mr. LOUNI' luggeated that the clsatm should now stand over, and that the Govern- ment should consult with Mr. Dalton, and come to an understanding that a year hence he would be paid by this ( :ovemment it the Domininn Government did not reaompense him. Me (Mr. Lount) thought the sum of $1,000 was too much. Mr. MLKELLAR objected to the scheme of payment as proposed by the Bill, tnd sug~ gated that it weal}! be bitter to come down with the payment m the "ttrnstee, _ Bom J. t5l,e,fe,flt'ty,l, said he would ho canon weep t o " e ti hon. member for Bisthwa11. gg ' ton of the Mr. BLAKE "id he would take a vote on the matter on concurrence. with the chin - tiii?i,Tl?rr.li"i7l8'8lP', , . . f ght; tor ti',,',Ti,",, («3:11:66 to a fair 1'6th , p1 ' net {or ji'itiii, 1:13;??? this, 'u't't',h2'tlt let perform. g not be called 'i1;lf'il,' O Mr. FERRIER nid the sum was not high, especially as this Bill wan intended to pro- mo! :71 election disputes. " hugh.) Hon. J. S. MACDONALD defended the /1 but there shall be paid. out. or the won- strd {Laverne Fund the sum oi S 21): , to the Master in Ordimry of the That thee aha}! be paid to the Referee embers of the sad Carat, annually, the T if she Attorney. o the judges in lilt t of the Cort. mm, Mr. CAMERON cen..tew.%1thst than was nothing said why the Home should not give judicial fun ations to an ofie,er appointed _ by it. He did not consider Mr. Taylor would , take the status of a judge, on which the whole 1 question turned. He would not mix up Mr. Dalton with this question,' but looking at it on its merits, he believed it was not only right and wager, but one quite within the scope of the cute. remarks"; he W13 not do so in the 0:5:le tions he was about to make. m might new day that he had the best authority for stat- lug that the views as to the legality of Mr. Taylor" appointment were m: slur-ed in by V all the members of the Cour: ; although he i" would admit that they we re sh wed in by an r"- eminent member ot that Court. the Attor. l'] nay-General having got int) a snare, from F which he was not set free, new deliberately _ proposed to get into another snare. A while . ago, the AtformtG'ensrat was heard to say , that the Ottawa Government should be charged with the salary of the Clerk in Chambers ' he created the ofliet, and now he said that the Government of Canada ought . to pay the salary. m now proposed to pat another gentleman in precisely the same position. mm. J. 8. M u)DONALD--No, Mr. BLAKE said that this Bill proposed that it should be allowable for the Judges to publish a general order to allow the referee to transact all their judicial business except in some particular cases. It was proposed that the Lieutr.Govermsi. in Council should create the tflias, and that the House should pay him. If it were right that the Home should pay forgthese judicial duties. Irhy was it not; ti ght that it should pay for those of Mr. Dalton? The only sound principle . was warm! be defied the 4ttornttG'imsra1 to 1 conlrzdict it-Ithat with reference to the salaries of judges and rsons (illhtg judicial positions, they should,8 be paid out of the general funds ot the Proyirdis, This was a principle recognized by Our constitution. l, What the Attprrr,ercericma1, proposed war- that whereas jadiiiuterricG in this Pro. . virce were paid out of the general revenue, of which We paid our share, part of these salaries was to be paid by the suitors. Bat the suitors were now paying heavily enough in all conscience. Tho av-se/ft-r.., ""'eP"'. Ben. Mr. CAMERON said as they had a l, right to do away with the Court of Chancery. _ " might be inferred from resolutions Intro. ( duced by the hon. member for South Bruce, ( they hada right to alter and amend it. The Confederation Act gave the power to . the Dcminion Government of aitrrrit_tttrttg , judges of the courts, but this House had the 1 power of appointing subordinate oiiieera, such ', as the referee referred to. . i M". LOUNT gait] there was an actual noctusity for doing something to quiet the uneasiness throughout the country. He would be rather dispoaed to tstretch a point, in View of the uncertainty of the country in the matter. The Bill was consiilered neceszary by the ju-Jgea, whose opinions on th's matter Were woris1iy of the greatest weight. in all conscience. T50 'Liriiiiihi'iiiii'rti sought to create an ofiioe, and to assign or give power to assign the duties of it; and to the extent to which theta were judicial da. tiar-the duty of sitting in chambers-. he (Mr. Blake) maintained that the Ottawa Government must appoint and must pay. The Attorney-General ought not to press the proposal that the Province shouid pay the salaxies of these judicial offitsers. Atty. Gen. MACDONALD contended tut the arguments tspplicab?.e in the case of Mr. Dalton did not apply to the case now. under discussion. Mr.' Taylor was appointed in 1866, at a salary of $2,000, and it was now only proposed to place him on the same foot. ing, The J udges of the Wart of Equity waisted on the right of this appointment, "ul the Bill was necessary in order to ro. move éouhts; ll '. BLAKE-he tiou. Atiy..(;en. a'urAClr0NAL0--Bat there is an appeal. Mr. BLAKE said he was considering. the positim ot Mr. Taylor under the Bill. There was to , oubt that.that oi%ial became a Judge in Chambers under the Biil, and was just as much a judge " were the judges of the octirttr,srhcsw, decisions could only be ap, cesled against. in the l'burt of Error and geded against. in Appeal. Mr. BLAKE amid the duties of the oiliaar in 1866 were different in extent to those with which it was now proposed to invest him. In 1866, the consent of parties was required, but here parties bad no alternative. Ativnhen. 1iACDONAL0-Bat there is Mr. BLAKE said of caurae the honourable Secretary would not dis. cuss Mr. 1hilton's case, because be ct 113d not. The reasoning in one case was exactly tee to the yroposibion in the other. I ey had hoax! a naw reading " the camtituhon from the hon. seereurr--the Dcuziniown appointed all judge! of the superior courtr, fat that the House conid take aw}! their duties and by giving than to other om. ciala, with achange of name, bring them within the appointment of that Home When a judge sat in Chambers, he sat as a. judge, and yet by a high presto sort of at. rangement hr, could put. anothgr official inhu place, who, thqugh discharging the same datletr, waa.noti to be considered a judge, . ., L LL-.. "-shpt stretch ' Mr. LAI.? DER supported, the Bill, con- tending that the arguments at the hon, mem- her for South Bruce would result in cantal- izing all power in Ottawa. . When a judge sat m unamneru, no no... - '. judge, and yet by a high presto sort of or. rangement hr, could put. another official inhu place, who, though discharging the same datletr, waa.noti to be considered a judge, The argument that they were to stretch ' little this "my and then in that wad eimpfy that the Home should tako .a. wrong 'step b q cause they did not t.xaot;ly see the right comic. They could not evade the constit . tion by the pitiful evasion proposed, - _-.--. Hum carried- At,tcrnerihu1eris1 MACDONALD said that, the hon member was: admit that the Master in Ordinary discharged more judulsl éuth 5 than fell to the lot of Mr. Taylor. Mr. BLAKE-- No, Attormtqenela1 MACDONALD asks J supposing Mr. Taylor resigned, what were they to do l' The Secretary Ind the power at referring cases which he did not wish to hear to the Judges. The Home ought to be ready to stretch a point under the circum stance: of the one. withe'claua; as filtad up wal' ,sra.lCiiiiiiiiiiittatlgguiillll has judicial fumy -iuetrieiqtsntsi':'U then carried, tyutl maortod I , :91: et

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