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* " w3 1 O@en e vd o cce C ." y P e esnt "" o paq ts 4y + mc i ": EY *# > * ~ Aay $%~ C ht ~a .8 it ~ ~y9 2s _-- -- $ 41"?:.4%3 s Mr. MACDOUGALL (Simeoe) regretted that his officials had been guilty of such malversations in re-- t ' : 4earned friend (Mr, Cameron) was not present, for | apect of their duty or that want of integrity F mo doubt he would have u:u)ud(td the motion. He which -- would have rendered them unfit to (Mr. Macdougall) had declined to second it, anfl he hold -- their ppsitionl_ in the future. It had 4 was glad that his name was not placed on the Com-- * nothing to do with the internal management of the | mittee, for be thought they had better go on as at affairs of the Department,iput with the conduct of . vresent. __ He suggoested t";t' r"" Ht({,"" *hm:ld public omcia\ls.mx Thes'e officials had the right to have a peet _ fifteen _ moiutes efore e -- regular The chargos against them investigated b o tri-- ' baor, _ aud _ that the different _ clorgymen bunal wI'{ich :'vu accessible to ',hfll?l; and ";- al,'fl'h;g ui this city should be invited to attend and give the member for South Simcoe had referred to writers on i House the bonetit of their presence, and their invo-- the subject he would have found that they regarded i M eations on the Divine Being. It, however, the ser-- afCommission ast he prover mode of inquiry in such t vice was to be a mere form, he apprehended more cases. _ Tt was impossible for the Minister of Educa-- & evil than good from it. Et "had been in the House tion or the Department to bave taken charge of Commons at Ottawa during prayers, and he of the _ inquiry in any such a way . as thought the ceremony there was entered into with jo give it the authority of a judicial _ in-- very little sincerity. If, however, the House de-- quiry. The other investicgation had reference to airéd to adopt a form of prayer, he would not stand runtters purely departmontal, The law regulating in the way. HMe was brought up to believe that the conduct of the Department provided the ma-- forms of prayer that did not spriug from the heart chinery by which matrers relating to school of-- | J were of little use. He therefore hoped that, if the | ';mimtion or the internal management of the De-- I House wore to be cpened with prayers, the ceremony | partmont could be referred to a Commission by the | would be conducted in the most solemn and sincere } Chieft Superiatendent of Education, or, under the | PE\ ® monuser. preseut system, by the -- Minister. The enquiry | | Mr. sENCLAIR very much agreed with the last ,'imply :lff"(gt("l flw_p_o*i"ou of candidates endeavoutr-- | ! speaker. 1t was a proper thing for members of this ing to obrain certificates of qualification to teach ; | t House to invoke the Divine blessing on their work and it became nccessary to ('pudu(:t it in such ! in th>;. own closets, and he was sure that some mem-- a -- wWay 'flmt ail the _ candidates ut\3-(rtcd by | bers did «0. Whother it would be to the glory ot the enquiry should .lm\(-,"nu _oppqrtumty of a (I God for them to adopt something which would be $ull and "(-ll_l:l]('l.e heariug. 'The inquiry conducted + § likely to degenerate info a mtc form was another by Mr. Justice Patterson was one in which the public § matter. . 1t it was the Divine blessing they wanted, | gonerally acquu'sc('d,_ and he_ tllougllt'all \\"luf had ' he had wory little confidence in machine praying, watched the proceedings hefore the Conunissioner I whether it were done by a member of this House or would o(:rdm!ly acquiesce in his report. (Hear, é by auy one else. (Laughter.) To his mind, the I:o!r_.) The circumstances in which the lnq'uuy.ha(l most preferable system would be for the different originated could not be charged to any poriod since | | members of the Hous*e to take _ part them-- he (Mr. Crooks) had been the head _ut the Depart-- | selyes. (Laugbter.) They were all members of the ment, as they dated as far }lm:kl as 1874,. It appeared 2 Church. -- (Repewed laughter.) Why should not the ulso, with regard to the inquiry condncted by Mr. - Attorney--General or the leader of the Opposition Hughes, that the ublainiocg by eandidates of the } offer prayer in the louse ? (Hear,hear,and laughter.) | examination papers from certain printors in Toronto 4 If they were really an: ious to secure the Divine had commence'g'e.ome time before the examinztion h blessing hon. members could pray for themselves, L1 which took place last year. At this stage of his the members of this House offered prayer hbefore they | speech Mr. Crooks said that he had been ill for some C entercd it, he felt sure they would refrain from mak-- days back, and found himself unable to continvue his * ing remarks such as had been made,imputing napro-- remarks at present. He hoped the House would f per motives to the doings of others. indulge him so far as to allow him to resume his 4 ,' Mr. CAMERON (who had a few minutes before remarks on the subject on another occasion. (Mear, €ntered the Mouse) said that he was by no means a hear.) 8. religions man, &0 to speak, but he _ had . that Mr. MACDOUGALTL' (Simcoe) said it was very ¢ respect tfor everything pestaining to religion that he evident to every member of the House that the hou. | | 1 did not like to see it in any way endangered or used goentleman was so indisposed as to be physically in-- l & in a way that m\ght be considered a mockery. 'The capable of doing justice to his view of the case to-- ¥ remarks of the hon, gentleman who had just pre-- day. For his part he was perfectly willing 4 eeded him led him to the eonclusion that it might be to accord the hon. gentleman every consideration 5 so in this House if the _(nofiolud the Attorney--Gene-- under the circumstances; but he trusted that it t ral were carried into effect. If hon. gentlemen were would not be :ong before they would have an expla-- f sent here to support the Hlon;rmurm or the Oppo-- nation from the Government. . wition through thick and thin, opening prayers Mr. DEACON wi & nig! A) would be rather out of place. After the prayers sioner é;'l(:'::'&.)'?.]fi:l':i;egufig :x::(c)l':' lrx;ndmh:-'(:g ('rz:':"i-.v?d 4 were offered up there would be hon. gentlemen from the sale of 1-;:,,'1,. 1331' rear ? k who would vote rather in the interests of the Gov-- w & eang year + $s erument than according to their convictions. They Mr. PARDEE said the amount, as wellas be could y knew that members had voted differently from the remember, was §$228,000. 'l way they apoke in the lobbies, and contrary to the Mr. MACDOUGALL (Simcoe)--What was the dictates of lt:lgior |lril~uh: judgment,. He did not estimate ? 4 think it woul« in the interests of morality or re-- PH enl & § 4 li'ion that prayer should be offered for the Divine b"]:I;;' 5:,{"&;:{::;&:;23:: r':ot remomber exactly, direction of their course in this House. Because he r a AFrriRe s sn 4 }| believed it would bring religion into discredit he c"?m:-sph-\(a().\-hoes that include the sals of li-- i upposed the proposition. s P x' Mr? MOWAT said he was both surprised and _ Mr. PARDEE--No. The amount reccived from ¥,l pained at the observations of his hon. friend, .tnuhe'rtdum wns, in x;onnd numbers, $400,000 ; the M on whose support of the motioun he had confidently on in received from the sale of lands, about M relied. Ite should not tollow the hou. member in re-- §258,000, Jt gard to the political portion of his speech. . He Mr. MEREDITH--I think you estimated $600,-- ) should not follow h";: b'y .-lt:u-limg the Opposition as 000 2 he (Mr. Cameron) bad attac ced the Government, a DEP_X p . P "This was not the occasion tor anything of the kind. ::r p'"\"f"'?"\"' abo"? $100,000, T believc. ) He would only say that if there were gentlomen on lati r. MEREDITH, referring to the paragraph re-- cither side of this House who were accustomed to i'fur'g to increased accommodation for the mu.ne' f vote against their conscience, it was ouly the more 'l_"' and dumb, &e., said that ha was eoITY tha! necessary that they should seek the Divine guidance q}':gg? l\l!nl were 't granted to these charitablo ®x-- f to -- provent them --from acting in . a manner | f t" 10n%, vg!nchl d charge of the aged and the un-- so -- wicked. He -- could not think that his Inr u'n:lml. 'l he n|!11u11|xts now given yvcre a mere hou. friend had made -- the -- observations . he £.Rale le. !'wn of these institutions in the eity of \ did -- deliberately, but on the spur of the mo-- '9']" on, \Vhl['[l had been crected at probably a cost | ment. . HMe (Mr. Mowat) 8y mpathized with what had 0 3(10.'000 or £70,000, only negmved two cents per head | been said as to the futility of mere forms of prayer. --or $1,000 for the two--while 20 cents per head was | * His own education had uiven him a |ln'fo-rl'm-t:. for ';lvenl to the hospitals. _ The Government should not ' extemnoraneovs prayer, but all the Churches did not | t(l,\!e sight of the fact that by taking proper care of take that view. _ From his knowledge of the Church } l-"e" 'l(l_uloxtungu people they very ovitem succeeded | f which used so: forms of prayer, and, of its ministers | 'b':." ing them useful members of the community, and laymen, he believed there was as much 'picty in | b :l,mhflw'" they wera liable to become not only that Chlouch as in others. He was quite satisficd that | .:r;(i nsome but vicious. _ He thought the Province I it would be quite impracticalle to open the House | ol '-aflurd to make these institutions a larger j with prayer unless they ;\'unpm-d some form. _ He grant. | should be glad if it '.-',.-ru'h.uu-l practicable to have |__ Mr. MOWAT said that, of eourse, the observation | k a minister ol religion to perform the service, made by the hon. gentleman appealed to the hn-- t but if not, it would be better to have prayer offered | manit® of every member of the House; but | :'t the o;wnm.;lz of (l(l.l."ll' sessions by a layman rather :l:cy mm;lt c:u,igm. the limited sources of their rey-- | han not at Abl. heers, ) Jue, and that the li i x $ ¥1 + rROX asked ifi P giving further il,l]lncflnl:"'t:e io inew snynowhen y M Mr. CAMERON acked if it were intended that the ud 14 support to these institutions. They , i Committee should be named now, dmon:l'i'}";';::;"q'um'(il (t):' }hn; chnmc;'er, and if ad-- | # ap s s & ve las > ities « 4 I' Mr. MOWAI said the motion contained the unames other useful ob.iec'{'s wl('m;)d '1'1';::;; gfisozr'::fi:e'."mffi | \ of the Committoe,. proportion to the revenue the grants to them wore | & Mr. CA MERON--Then 1 decline to act. T1 eannot gflggi' The institutions for the deaf and dumb and | \ {wrtm |'|tbl the duties required by a member of that "'.:\en;"')':r'fljl;? l:l -:tl,mmi;a; and the House should 'ommiltée. 4 . @1hia 1¢ rovince, i ki ' "The naimma of Mr. Clarke (Norfolk) was substituted 'i';"l"'"" support . of thesec 'in's't'itu't'ilo::g igt': ' for that of Mr. Cameron, and the motion was P Ni« h.."'lsx was really doing more for | # n a0d, car | ';!Ultll)'le purposes than was usual in other coun-- | : in sihow ar s "m-u. There were many important matters besides , pEBATE OX THE ADDRESS. I m:"'ni("('i":'ifll ROVerzgncntfaxnd legislation, which con-- l + rgs as >d a large portion of the revenue,. Publi 'g mMu" :\{fl,{-m".l["'l' 1\ntn.('m\) (t:;\n;qml the debate | l"':l; going on ?ln';o.flt everywhere, and in :'h:;?-: | a the Address, Ln connee lon wi ms remarks | arge amounts had been de w F \| 1 1 'h"."'";""'l:""'y of a M'-m;wr';-:nlling in a judge o'ltlp | various other objects. devoted to railway ald gnd ' ] assist him in performing ris duties, he read an ex-- | @ D i i h l tract from a western paper in support of what ilm l:::l | lo(;"n' ;)osn(x:y):ll:'.!.:"-:i.({';'a'cflm""h';lflm'. the time would | wnid. | the present wouhi 'la':%lt;:i";?;g"cs acheme than | _ Mr, CROOKS (who evidently suffered from severe these charities, 'The Act passed lwlnelgx;:s;::;;o | indispocitian) wished to state what had been the | which provision was made that {h. munici nalitie{ eourse of !lu-l Department of l"'.du('zuion with respect | should take charge of their qwn poor was -novE' taken to the two Commissions which had been referred | advantage of to a very limited extent, HMe thought s to in the course of the debate. There had been some that it was wortly of consideration whether the Gov-- »nisapprehension in the minds of the clerical public as ernment should not compel the municipalities to sup-- to the reapective function« ot these two Commissions. port their own paupars, instead of sending them bg- 8o far as the two inquiries wore concerned, they yond their bounds to burden other corporations,as was were entirely distinet, they -- involved | distinct how done, Referring to _ the timber. 'trad eonsiderations, and would require to be considered he said that there was no iniormation : p independently by the MHouse, 'The authority tor the show -- that _ the -- revival upon -- which the issue of the Commission in the inquiry conduct y Government congratul iy the Co e ing ed by gratulated the House had reall 4 AJuastice Patterson did not reside in the Minister of ' taken place. 'The amount received f timb t . Kdneation, but in the Licutenant--Governor inCouncil | Y rom timber dues ; and the subject of the inquiry was whether pul;l'i(: i