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Mr. CREIGWHTON said that there was an increase of torty--three per cent, on certain portions of the work. Mr. FRASER denied that the increase amounted to the per centage named, and challenged the hon. member for North Grey to prove the assertions he had made. He also said that in one part of his speech the hon. member had stated that there was a general increase of forty--three per cent. | He dedied that any actual increase had been | made in the contract price. The Govern. ment had not made a new contract at in-- creased rates, and if the House decided that no increase should be paid for work done in the past, or any work to be done in the future beyond that formerly agreed upon, there was nothing in the contract which would enable the printing contractors to claim any additional sum. -- He had a prac-- tical knowledge of printing himself, and he | had given personal alttention to the subject as resarded the House's printing,and from the circumstances which had occurred, and \ which had led the Printing Committee to | make the recommendation they had made, he felt that he had been sale in recom-- mending the payment of the increased pay. ments that had been made. _ In 1873 the | printing was very much behind in its work, and it became almost a question as to whether the extra allowance asked should be paid or the work of the House blocked, The printing was being done in such a way as to involve the Province in loss, and to hurry the matter forward it became neces-- sary for the printers to work at night as well as during the day,. « They all knew that for night work extra expenditure was necessary, as the work must be done at in. creased prices, 'The prices for printing in 1868 were largely increased in 1873, and work could not be done for--the same prices, the 'prices for day work having increased so that one who had taken a coutract in 1867 would necessarily find that in carrying it out in 1873 he must suffer loss of money. The printing at that time had increased, and the chances were that it would be doubled and perhaps quadrupled if only day work were done. Looking at these facts, «nd the printers baving a fair demand for increased prices, and the neccssnty.for expe-- diting the business of the House, it became , necessary for the Government md .thu | Printing Committee to take the matter into | consideration. They did so, and the House authorizedj the Chairman of the Print. \ ing -- Committce _ to allow tho ex-- tra prices. It might be asked why tha Anntracts were not Sot Aside, and I Mr. FRASENR said the subject was not a new one for the hon. genllieman who bhad just takcn_hisr seat ; in fact, he thought it was a pet subject of his (MNr. Creighton's), and he had availed himself of every possible opportunity of bringing it before the notice of the House. No one would give him credit for doing more than, from his expe-- mence in the printing business, attempt-- ing to bias the minds of those who «were unacquainted with the details of the business. By way of preliminary he remarked that if the hon. gentleman had been as desirous of obtaining informa-- tion as he professed to be he should have referred to the Printing Committee, of which he himself was a member, when he should have had an excellent opportunity of get-- ting at all the facts. He might have sum-- moned the Queen's Printet and those who had charge of the printing, and he could thus have ascertained whether the facts warranted the statements made in reference to the increase in the prices. 1e denied that the increase was at the rate of forty--three per cent., as had been asserted by his hon, friend opposite. only eighteen cents per voiums ot six hun. dred pages, while here it was twenty--two. The matter of printing might be looked Upon as an unimportant matter, but in look-- ing over the items he had made out an ac-- count of $30,000, besides the printing of the statutes, which also involved a large out-- lay. He thought it did not speal well for the Government that they had not had this matter properly adjusted before this. (De-- risive cheers from the Opposition. ; He had brought the subject up on several occasions, but had not reccived that information which it was his desire to obtain, (Opposition cheers.) « the contracts were not | new tenders invited for the work. -- in reply to that he would say that there were many obJections why that course was not desir. able. 'The first was that it was not at all likely that any other printing establish-- ment would do the work at a lower price than the contractors. The leading printing houses of the city would not undertake the work at any price. Mr. FRASER said that several offices had been communicated with, and the prices had been found to be largely in advance of the prices that were then being paid. In addi-- tion to this there was also the fact that there was a large amount of confidential printing, which it was not desirable should be done in newspaner, or any ordinary printing ofiices having to do with newspaper work. The hon. gentleman had spoken of special plead-- ing. 'The fact was, that at Ottawa the work was entircly different from the work of the Ontario Government. 'The prices paid at Ottawa, compared with theprices paid here, were really only one--fourth of the amount actually realized on the work there, so that fifty cents per thousand, instead of twelve and a half, was nearer the mark. There it would be found that two.thirds of the work was tabular printing, and then taking into consideration the fact that the papers had to be printed both in French and in English, and that the prices had been ad. vanced to twenty--five cents per thousand, it would be apparent that the allowance for printing here was much less than that paid at Ottawa. Mr.O'DONOGHUE asserted that the price paid at Ottawa was ouly twelve and a halt cents per thousand, 1 Mr. FRASER read from sessional papers to confirm his statements regarding the price paid at Ottawa, and to show that new arrangements had been made since the time to which Mr. Creighton referred, (Cheers.) He continued to say that, taking the prices quoted by the hon. gentleman opposite, the rate was really four times that amount. He also found that the price paid by private parties to the Government printer was fifty-- five cents per thousand eims and fifty cents for press work. (Hear, hear.) Another feature in the whole matter was the quantity of work required, Where large numbers of books _ were required, the composition and -- binding _ could be done at more reasonable rates than where only a few volumes were required. Hon. gentlemen opposite were in the habit of re-- ferring to the example set by the Adminis-- tration of the late Mr. Sandfield Macdonald, He did not usually take that course, but he might state that that Government had not thought proper to ask for tenders for the Departmental printing, which he thought was quite proper, 'That Government had given a contract to these same printers ex. tending over a period of ten years, 'There were special cireumstances connected with the Departmental:printing which required the matter to be managed in a way diflerent from the ordinary work, Mr. MACDOUGALL--Were any of the other printing offices communicated with ? Mr. FRASER replied that no increased payments had been made for the last two years, nor had any new contract been made, but the extra amounts which were allowed had been included in the Estimates, and were, therefore, open to have been challeng-- ed at the time when they were presented, Mr. MACDOUGALL asked how long the increased payments continued, Mr. FRASER again explained that the amounts were in the Estimates of 1874 and 1875, and were open to the criticism of the House. He, therefore, thought it would bave been much better for the hon. gentle. man opposite to have asked for the informa. tion he desired from the Printing Committce, of which he himself was a member, and he should have been supplied with the fullest information. -- (Cheers.) Mr. LA UDER asked when the i + to be B\lbmitt(}Q, ic increase was Mr. FRASER read an Order in Council to show that they were, and that the Govern.-- ment reported the circumstances to the Mr. SCOTT asked if the increased prices were paid by virture of an Order in Council. ¥2