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ol Supply. a Mr. MILLER moved, That the sum of $13,000 for the payment of perior Court judges, under the authority of 33 Vs;: % 3, of ";3 st'h""'"; 07'31\%?0. ieaaddition to the ario# pa em 0 mindi bb struck out. J ion Uovernment, molioh. (Hear, héeal,) Mr. MeMAHON had opposed the moti to pay the judges the extra $1,000 \vhgtt:oil: was xpa_de law, and he opposed it still. The Dominion Government had the appoint-- ment of the judges, and he did not think it right that the Ontario Legislature should be called upon to vote money for the pay= ment of those orss whose appointment the had no control. * Mr. GIBSON thought the ilem was some-- what of an anomalous one in the method of its payment. _ He was inclined to support the motion of his hon, friend from Mus-- kok*, M o sar Mr. MOWAT said the item had been voted every year for the last ten years, and no vote that could be taken in Committee would affect the question. 'The gentleman making the motion would have to give notice to repcal the statutes if he wished to have the payment done away with, Mr. WOOD did not desi Mr.: esire to i l':lth the debate, bui thought thexl-::ecrfem ie %clo vote taken to--night, as it was ncould sirable to pass upon the itein in +Apr L Gase. * so thin a Mr. LA UDER said that the hon. member for Muskoka had heard the matter discussed-- fifiug a lime, and it was only in this, the last session before going to the country, that ho moved in gc. lle did not believe that the hon. member was in carnest in his m&&io'fi. (flonr, héat.) Mr. MILLER said that one of the first principles laid down by May was that the representatives of the people had coutrol over the expenditure of the public money. The resolution had not been moved by him with any view to the elections; on the contrary, it would not make the slightest possible difference to himselt in that respect,. He did not think that the Su-- perior Court judges were overpaid, but he held that the people of Ohtario had no right to pay the money, Notwithstanding the fact that he would haveo to vote against the Government in the matter, he believed that be was fulfilling his duties to the country in doing so, Mr. HUNTER had yet to learn that tho oflice of judge was forced to go a begring, and was suro that competent men could be obtained at a much less salary than was now paid, He thought the present time a proper one to express his opinion upon the matter, and would be prepared to support the resolution. Mr. CREIGHTON thought that the motion was somewhat of a buncombe one, for the reason that the presont was not the proper time to make the reduction,. If it were decided, now, to strike out the item the judges could compel the (Government to pay the amount, as it would still remain upon the statute book, Mr. LA UDER taunted the hon. members for Muskoka and South Groy with having nc intention of voling against the Govern-- ment, and characterized their remarks as buncombe. Mr., MERAICEK said that the sum appcear-- od in the estimates, and members of the liouse were called unvon to express Lheir opinion on tho appropriation, and if that opinion were adverss & Bill would have to Mr, MOWAT thought hon. members extremely basty in taking objection to the item, and that those on his own side who were advocating its striking out were doing so without giving the matter sufficient con. sideration. Ten years ago Mr. Sandfiecld Macdounald considered it necessary that the Superior Court jJudges should be paid a larger salatry, and the question was then rased as to the constitutionality of the course, and whether it was not a matter for which the Dominion Government should be brought in to topoa} the statutes in that regard, _ He did not know what authority the _ Attorngy--General had for-- as~ suring the judges that the sum would continue to be paid them. ile would say nothingy derogatory about t.hc judges, but he contended against the prin«-- ciple that thefpeople: of Ontario should be called upon to pay the solaries of gentle. men whom the Dominion Government ap= poiated, provide, 'That question had been decided upon then, and successive Governments since had all agreed in granting the amount, It was entirely contrary to all sound and ' constitutional usage to diminish the sala-- ries of the judges when they bhad been once given them,. 'There was no principle } more generally recogrized than that, and it was thought so important that in 'l some American constitutions an express provision was embodied that no judge's | salary should be_ diminished during |\ his incumbency, It was an important | prineciple, and one tending to up-- hold the independence of the Superior 'Court judges, than which there was no-- } thing more important. _A thousand dollars . | a year, or ten thousand dollars a year, was | nothing in companson to the independ-- 'i ence of the Bench, The statute granting | the $1,000 additional had been left on the \ statute book untouched since 1873; the |\ Government had been acting under it, and if there was anything upon which judges could reily it was upon the payment of that sum, He submitted to his friends upon both sides of the House that it would be an unjust and an unwise thing to strike out the item. 'Fhose who had given atten. tion to the matter know that the salaries of the judges in Ontario could not be raised without those of every other Province being similarly raised, and he contended that as Ontario paid a larger share into the Do-- minion treasury than any of the other Provinces, it would be much cheaper to continue paying the $1,000 for special work donethan to have theamountassumed by the Dominion, It was also a matter upon which in the interests of the public it was not expedieut that there should be unnecessary debate. He thought it absolutely cssential that the item should be passed, and he had no hesitation in saying that he attached as much importance to it as to any other item in the estimates, _ Mon. gentlemgn in voting upon the matter would therefore know that that was the stand he took upon it. Eim Deviayinhnh Adadrin eW taanterinltintet mrtsei theix o the counsel had a right to charge a sum such as his client would pay. 'Phis was a question deeply concerning the laymen of the House, for it would be a blow to the country if this reduction were effected contrary to the contract which had virtually been entered into with the Jjudges during the life of the latter. How was it the judiciary had taken such a place in the affections and respect -- of the peo. Mr. BETHUNE said ho felt satisfied that if hon. gentlemen considered the question a little whilo they would not vots for the motion ot the hon,. member for Muskoka. They were not there as a number of chil-- dren to attempt to make capital out of one or two votes of this kind and then retuse to follow them up with legislation,. He had no doubt all hon, members who spoke upon the point were perfectly honest in what they said, but it was, he thought, quite un-- fair that any hon. gentleman should speak words such as those which had fallen from the hon. member for Northumberland. That gentleman had said that the members _ of _ the _ legal profession in the House were afraid to speak against this item because the Jjudges fixed their fees in the Courts, 'The tariff of fees was tormed in the interest of the client, for Mr, SINCLAINR said that if anything would show how different were the present Opposition in the Mouse from the party led by Hon. John Sandificld Macdon-- ald it would be.the present debate. 'This increase had required all the influence of that hon, gentlemen to carry it against the opposition of the Reformers., When, how-- ever, it was carried, both sides agreed to let it stand. _ He supported the position taken by the Attorney--General. Political capital would no doubt be made against some hon,. members in such votes as the present, but it was his ,desire to do what was the best for the country rather than shelter himself against charges in connection with them. He telieved the leader of the Opposition, having suggested this question first, was responsible tor the objcction to voting the amount, Mr. MEREDITH was willing to carry any responsibility which naturally fell to him in this matter, but claimed ali he said was that it was a subject for consideration, and he said so still. 'This was a question, bhowever, which did not properiy come within the Supply Bill, and should not be voted upon. o ap