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vote. (Hear, hear.) He desired to call attention to some practical difficulties which School Boards in his vicinity had encountered. 'The School Act said that before putting up a school building it was not necessary to submit a b{-luw to the ratepay-- ers; the High School Actéwas silent on the point, and the Municipal Act said the School Board could not incur a debt without submitting the question to the vote of the citizens, They had a case in Court upon this question now. 'They had sent to Toronto for the opinions of a number of eminent lawyers, for which they paid large sums of money, but no two of the opinions agreed, (Laughter.) Me instanced a case of a Union Board in which organi-- zation had _ been prevented for about twelve months by; the continued and persistent ab-- sence of half the meombers, thus preventing a quorum, In other cases they had had difficultios which necessitated appeals to different lawyers, but the only effect seemed to be the spending of a groat deal of .noney, tor the opini ons never accorded with each other, and even if the questions wero taken into court the judges would give ditferent decisions, (Laugnter.) Mr. SCOTT claimed that there was no ossential difference as a malter of fact between school and municipal affairs, He would, therefore, move that the franchise in both cases should be mado the Mr. CROOKS said it was for those favouring this mo-- tion to show good public cause why the women should be deprived o{ their franchise upon school maiters. To his own mind, the line between municipal and school matters was sharply and distinctly drawn. Municipal government had to deal with the material interests of the people, while school government affected the intellectual and moral development, for under the Ontario system the moral aspect of the question was rocognized, and the principles of Christianity rogarded,fas to their effect upon the schools, He thought it would be a retrograde step in the legislation of the country to put the two upon the same footing, and would aadlg affect our system, which had been the growth of twenty years. The class of men who became can-- didates for the position of school trustecs was altogether different from that of the aspirants to municipal honours, and the qualifications necessary to each were altogether different, With regard to having the elections upon the same day he saw the same difficulty. The tendoncy wouid be to have both contests characterized by the same party questions and the same class of men would be likely to run for office in cach. _ If the wish of the hon. member was to effect this end his motion was well calculated to moet his views, but otherwise he would be disappoluted, 'The orly argument to be used in its favour was that of convenience, and that in a case of so much moment was not a worthy one. He would endeavour to prevent the position indi-- cated by the motion being recognized, (HMear, hear.) given were seldom exercised. Me did not particu-- larly oppose the extension to them of the right to vote upon municipal elections, but this should be taken up as a separate question. He favoured the exception of rural municipalities as indicated by the Minister of Education. Mr. CODK said in his exporience the ladies voted very largely at school elections. Ho know one in-- stance in which twenty--four of them turned out to Mr. BETHUNE apprehended that very few ladies entrusted with the franchise exorcised it, and the uestion was whether they should for the sake of ghat small number incur a ver' large expenditure. All those who had the right of voting, with the ex-- ception of women, had their names ontercd upon the voters' list, and if the franchise for school elections was made the same as that for municipal elections the expense of making two lists would be done Mr. CREIGHTON was in accord with the Minis-- ter of Education as against the hon,. member for Peterboro'. He had always favoured the right of women to vote at school elections, The education of children came nearer home to them than any other class of logi-htiouhmd women, particularly in rural districts, took much more interest than the men in guch affairs. In Britain they were abead of us in theso matters, for the women not only voted at school elections, but also were elected themsclves to the [Boards Jinecting the school affairs of the district Me did not see why, if it was desired to make the franchise the same in cach case, it would not be well to extend to thom the right to vote at municipal elections, Mr. ROSS said the different voters' lists were a great difficulty, and a great source of expense to the country. 'The taking away the vote of the women would affect only four or five votes in each section. The school question was largely one of taxes, and complaints were being made of the heavy expense of our system. He was not in favour of the extension of the franchise. Those assessed for small amounts would get the full valuo of their taxes in the educa-- tion of their children, without having a vo'te at school elections, He was to a certainextent a sup-- porter of women's rights, but these rights when | _ LA _ srorenlhet 7 @mnean Y o f EDNE Snd es Pw'd away with. It would be a difficuit thing in citios to ascortain the names of those fomales who had the right to vote, while if the one list was made final for ail purposes all that expense and trouble would be saved. Another difficulty would be that the power of making these lists would rest in the hands. of the clerk, and the result might often bae a contest-- ed election because of inaccuracios they contained, Mr. MEREDITH did not think that the statement of the Hoa. Minister of Education that trustees and aldermen® were selected from different classes was founded upon fact. Ho also thought that there was not much in the objection that women would be disfranchised, as at guunt they very soldom exer-- cised their right, and then only in cases where, from the circumstances atternding a hotly contested election or otherwiso, it was desirable that they should not do so. There was but one class that would be affected by the amendment as to which he had any donbtl and that was voters assessed in citios for $400, It would be in the public interest, Mr. CROOKS said his aesire was not in any way to interfero with those who had the right to vote. If the lists wero made the samo the effect would be to disfranchise the women who now had a vote in schoor elections. Women were perhaps more interested in the educational affairs of the country than men, and the women teachers were the most useful class of the school-- teaching eummunitr He was not prepared to take the responsibility of excluding from voting a class who had held the right for some time, and who were so deeply intercsted in matters affected by those votes, (Hear, hear.) the same, There was no division of the taxes, and every person on the assessiment roll paid a propor-- tionate amount of the school expenses, ' Alr. CROOKS said that the clause under considera-- Hon applied nolol{lto Public Schools, and in another erics of clauses ho was proposing to legislate for rate Echools. There might be considerations acting PTublic Schools which could not be said to bply to Scparate Schools, and it was desirable to efer the discu=sion of matiers relating to the lat-- cJass of schools until that part of the Bill affect-- ig them was under consideration. Mr. MEREDITH said that the Bill did not extend o inlc()me franchiso to trustee elections for Separate oole. 'Mr. CROOKS said his hon. friend would find that e Bill deali with that question, «h Mr, FRASER said, there was no agitation Amongst Scparate School supporters to have the law hanged with regard to income voters, They pre-- Erred the system they had now, which was one with hich they were thorougbly acquainted, ifi{ The sccond section was then carriod, i V Qu section six, | and would bave the :effect of lessening the expense, if school elections wore held on the samme day and : in the same mannor AS municipal elections, -- _ Mr. BELL thou%ht that a fuller vote would ba | got out for trustee 6 ections if held on tie same day as municipal elections than there was generally polied at prosent, and for that reason he would like to see the elections held coincident!ly. | _ Mr. BARR was opposed to the disfranchisement of | such a large number of voters as was proposed by the motion of his hon. friend from Woest Peter-- borough. It was well known that ladies took much more interost in school trustee elections than in municipal elections, and he did not think it advig-- able to deprive them of the right to exercise that power. Mr. CALVIN pointed out the groat reduction that would take place in the expense of holding the elec-- tion for trustees if held at the same time as muni-- cipal eloctions Buch aceurse would also have the effect of bringing out a fuller expression of opinion, Mr. DEACON ridiculed the wontimontal c;lyoo- tions that had been taken to the motion offered by his hon. friend from West Petorborou%h. Hs could see no re&ason why there should not be a uniform franchise for both classes of ciections. He would not be in favour of placing the municipal elections on the basis of the school franchise, because he was not in favour of extending the fnneflhe, but thought the case could be met by making the quslmcatgon for votors for trustees the same'as that for counciliors The question of holding the clections on the same day was a distinct one, and he thouiht thora wore strong arguinents in favour of holding thom on different days. Tho objection that the motion would disfranchise ladies was a trifling one, and ho did pot think any lady in the land would blame them for depriving her of the school franchise, because it was rarely exercised, and when exctcnsc& it was gener-- ally under circumstances that rendered it undesira-- ble to do so. Mr. CREIGHTON pointed out the great difference that existed betwoen the fuactions of Municipal Counciliors and School Boards. He thought that they should be extremoly careful in depriving any one of the rights now possessed in regard to school elsctions. 'The qucstion was one between right and expediency, and whore there was a question of that kind he was on the side of right, Those whom it was proposed to disfranchise were just as doeply in-- terested in educational matters as those with whom it was proposed to leave the power of voting. Kot onmly -- would -- ladies -- be disfranchised, but & number of _ ratepayers -- in _ towns deil citie@ where the qualification for municipal Er.m hise respectively was $300 and $400 would be Iso 4liefr.ua£iled. He thought the motion was in 1c _ rection of putting the country into the position T; key and the East--(laughter)--in the matter f do,. iving ladies of their rights, Trusteeelections o «-- nerally conducted in a very poaceablo man-- her, » d thero was nothing about them that would Atl_cm « lady from casting her vote. +'The amendmont was then put and lost on a vote of ".'; to 25, ,' val \li Er.u'("u' Iso di 10 « ¥ ET\ NOum @Fose her, » ~Pclm w ts Phio c } Nr. MEREDITH askoed why the hon, Winister of Rdncation did not propose to make the section apply 4o Scnorate Schoois. B%lool voters. t % E. ! Mr. MERRICK thought that the measure had been introduced by the hon. Minister of Education Egon the view that it was for the benefit of the untry, and considered that the hon. gentleman was justified in not waiting for public agitation. * Mr. BELL again wished to put his amendment. _ Mr. CROOKS asked to have the motion changed as g{lr as related to Separate Schools, so as to leave iscussion on that point until a later portion of the Bill was arrived at. Mr. MEREDITH saw no reason for postponing he discussion with regard to Separate Schools, and intended that the hon. member for West Toronto ad a porfect right to put the amendment in the ghape he bad. Mr. SCOTT said there had been no agitation in gard @op tho income franchise for Public School tion s, &r._FRg\SER said he spokeo solely for Scparate 00} 5.