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* R in ns a c [ i ialndexmmnmitnes LCs AC * c on eata t t .o 5. f j on . > Wl c reuR ,-}'."-i'l > -- Hg " e eloine 1e eP pamile * +" $ . + brovrce P - » ,: * :',-;_,;;'_;'i, Mrike : -- ','x;»'.;;';?s ' ,,r ~z:_,,' ;'_; k.) !5",:;'-' + f '-:' .'g,i" gyf"~l se .. r_fl'{s-.'zi s & f .;;.'- 7 \ W ; is TA Ne ae wix -- es T oo k . % '--}1"9':"" es ~',*"~ i. 7 ;""'.~ '3;'-}"«: ~ _,,.'1"': , 2 -J','-,,'.M ' * e & > x; i * Li hi proed ":,_',;;,; 3 "as 6+ P hal o un ie 1 ,:'»;;,-. w nc : _ e & _ ¢ o. *% .~:.. * Ch en *L kn * * y on hoi 3 hi ies $ & '-:" * f o said that befor } M C oz f &..5. clc;\anlel:l he would like to make a few remarks | would ever be oomple;ed. dbtx}l ttlxlause t'hle 7<f by mway of expianation." Te would firstspetk t Eon MA reference made by the member for lus-- ' shou road »ted, » ; ::xth:ol L:hrc i( A n'icultux'XX Commission,. _ The placed as a lmblhlt_v.. They ha(lf also éssumed © | Commissioners E'md received from mcmhcraxl on ' gs la llit.;:l:::,:'l Qlll'-'[ :acf\':sll):::r:l:::'a(:-e t;i.feall(\,'";il:).l'?:l i | i i ouse names of persons who, f chool Fund. as n( A 1 »i~ | ?fi:l; mt(ll:?u'g){n:,u eotlg)?t to be m'al|ninml. The | lity beyond that at the timeto which l,us state-- y * 'Co:mnissioners, chosen from all parts of the | ment referred, viz., t}w alst I)ccm:";nr last. & Province, were best able to judge who were | | But hon. gentlemen said that the Govermnent ; f * most competent to give evidence, and therefore ' ' had authority to m:tl'&e a grant to assist in a it was that vbersons whose names were submit-- | !)u!ldmg a road from !rra\'e||||ur~t to Lake Nip-- t ted by members on both sidul.; of the House | 'tfl"':g{} Aj'\ut'e w':"':i:')?:l:lc(;:"al"fi?23;;:;'"3:";::{ x i . rere examined. _ As far as Essex was con-- | m1at the Ac fr it 10rity stated . :el-xnei;('lfe had no doubt that the best represen-- ; that it should have no force or effect 'mml % tative agriculturalists in that county had been | ratified by the House, With the knowledgo ; f examined. _ In regard to the question of the | that no agreement had been made oc ratified | 7 e surplus, he pointed out that hou, gentlemen | by the House, still hon. gentlemen wanted the } ' opposite had attacked only one item. They | contemplated subsiay to be pla.c'ed as aliability, 4 admitted that the Domimioun bounds woere part | They went further, and said although t-h'e Gov-- a of the surplus, and that the deposit in the , eroment had r«we.x\'cd no offer to erect the new r bank was an asset, but they denied that | Parliament buildings, and _hnd entered into no ' E o | the Trast funds were an asset in such a sense as | agreement and approved of no plan, that they 7 . o | to form part of the surplus. They went further, were in debt for the Paclhiament ; buildings. & f | and submitted that they werenotavailable funds, Would the hon, member for North Grey say to ¢ and could not be disposed of --that they were whom they owed this money ? y trust funds. He thought is very inconsistent Mr. CREIGHATON--I said that this Legis-- on the part of the member for East Grey (Mr. s lature had voted the amount and put it beyond § | Lauder) to make this conteption, because he their control. $ had voted for a statute that made the interest Mr. FRASER--Could we not repeal the Act I ' on these funds part of the Oonsolidated to--morrow ? P Revenne. Hon. members opposite took the Mr. CREIGHTON--I wish you would. ; | ground that these were trust funds, but here Mr. WOOD--If the hon. gentleman contract-- was an Act of Parliament which took the very . ed to build a house to cost $4,000 would he f opposite ground. : say that, before the work was commenced, he n | Mr. LAUDER--We do not deny that the | owed that $4,000 ? HMon. gentiemen further revenue from these funds is part of the Consoli-- l say that because they had taken authority to . ' dated Revenue, but that it is not available grant aid to the Kingston and Pembroke Rail-- as capital. 4 ' way, and one or two others of a kindred char-- Mr. WOOD--If the argument applied | acter, that they should place that as a liability, * to the principal it also applied to although they knew that it might be years the interest. --He did not intend, however, to and years before the first of these payments rest his case upon that alone, but upon the | | became due, and although they knew that the value of the assets, The hon,. genutleman had ! | mereased receipts from the lumber trade differed with the hou. Commissianer of Puvlic } would euable them to meet all obligations for | V\ ux'tw when he said |that there was a surplas : ! railway scrip. _It was also conteudefi that he f | equal to a cash surplus of four nxillion odd | ' had not treated the figures fairly. For their dollars. Heagreed with hon, gentlemen op-- , information he would give the figures with re-- * ' posite, but for a very different reason, and from | spect to the annual surplus of the receipts of f a different standpoint. These funds represent-- l the Province over the expenditure under the ' ed more than haif the surplus, whse!;uur they | | luill of Supply. 'That surplus could be used ; P | looked unon them as cash or not. The mem--| tor aid to railways. These surpluses were as | t ber for Glengarry had held that the Dominion | | follows :-- | F bonds which mature in 1885 were badly sold at | | jarp mo m f & 105}. «Now if these bonds ef the Dowminion | t ,";315'2'91 | 4 ' were badly sold at 105%, he would ask of what | 1974... ... 0n . O Pol O Onorataeane 'lt:ifig ¢ R value were funds which formed an interminable | ) 1070. /1 > +s ns a in e ren: s srl ks saks oo sant i AaOutints o F 1 security ? Were the hon. gentlamen prepared | | do o nc r s v en ce ee h et n e in n e e e es ©CRGEL to finu & ')rok(.r "~h0 Wl'llld l'i'*!i ili'i I'L'}'Ut.'t,i()" l E,,."j tb se Khk4 +4 1444 + +444 d.'l- lc'z'?;; es & by saying that these trust funds woere notworth , 199. l 1... in t ifi is ol 35.013 e p l more th.m} their f;t;'cc \-tul!U:-?f ']'g,..i\- g\-,._,,.wl t:n-_v ' | 9 1880. . :. :s +. ++ ++ .155 ++ ++ .+ > . »BPUORpEIGS -- ©02.971 m t were worth more than their face value, and they | | The total receipnts e y $ ! ai;o kilc\\' that if the Dominion Govermment f | -T'-'-'J--'"Ou.fz'fll'.fi ';Lt?nt:t{?tr'\!th;::'n)xfx?: a;xzngnlr;toe«;%o s a offered to pay over those funds the Oatario Gov-- | showing a saurplus of receip b hP ns clitirfus ' ' ernment would not dare to accept the olfer, . of about -'5';_0)'9':3{;3"! llv{,'.'l'l,)lf;".,f"ltz._}:'.l'_"x;;f,'.; ".l'( f | because they could not re--invest and get the | to show that t"'lz-\' had reas -i.| le e o o ¥ :"-'l .LS ' i same interest.~ Now, if thvy had funds in | that the surpins recei ts 4'1"\&:.:J[".'-,'\-\h~'~l'~" ,»).l": $ | their hands bearing 5 per cent. which, if offered | be >urii~.i.-nL' to pay lf« t Al * o oo opopres | | to thein in cash, they dared not take, then he | account of r'nl\s!"\."\' 1:' mt" l'l.l:' ]"ll%"-"';ns 1 T was right in holding that these funds were | two years in this expe tlt wl ("[!';'\ P U c sln | A ; worth more than their cash value. As the I was that for m,'""'\, i _f:_"t',":"f" l;"'l Dl'"*_!'fl't. sas population of the Province increased every ten | ed receipts from the ("l'('l'\'lll 'l'-\\'\"k-' ll) -:'. I-Xol;.' hy [ years "}f'"' share of t.hciu.wrv:,-t, on the Common l It madle no 'I:.'.('-n :uv«-_'.\.. i'rl- m')t- L."",l,'.."","_t', ' f | School Fund would also increase. On the first | f was concerned. whethar" th s d ESWE d E | of Jauuary last, while Dominion bonds matur-- | Ainogut for ? Yief MCT t".".\' _('"l""-l'-t'{' the | is ide ut ol ol i0) te m (th mgine def es ie es lominion bonds, 8 per cent., I natn ' J' amiaf s vrdadiv enz i Carrind} ./ A 1893, were worth llt[) and ultl.!.bubl'llx:"lti:;":!fv:ilf :'h;l .;~"'r'l -' l\"'""':.fi.f'lw 'u:n ap a".'l.'-""t' paid it ¢ taiists wanted permanent security, and if those | of ast: l Abine es l aios Yhe question bonds maturing in 1893 were worth 10 per | the ..".','."'["'kflt"" amount was not a factor in | cent. above pi, then the same oblication / :' mn(l..lsl ¥ utl 10 question was, whether thn'\. i to the Province 'of Ontario, lasting of | ', id be able to meet the ;.hllu'tl ralway pay-- j -- till 1803, 'but for all time, ' was ju:t o lll j:..a't of the receipts. Would the hon. | yulu:.hlf: to capitalists. If they could use the | l'l.\l;l.""'il.fl;"", ;"l'.xf};"".r? P ' interest of the funds just as they pleased then | \l \\'4';1';')' \,'* \ "_\ 03. ' that was an interminable annuity, and they | ons tha rennaspas" a ell. _ He would follow v had a right to sell it, and they could get more-- il llv _'1{1;-.',,'.!,,'_'mo". "'.:";m" had a guaranteed l over a quarter of a million for it more than its W l'f'f',' 3 """""'."t""fl' to $186,000, payable.aunu-- face value. 1f that fund was uot worth more l l '-u an average of fourteen years. Hon, l to them than par value while it bore five per t.' !nf vl.m;u ;s.ml i1 you desive to arrive {lt t_lu. cent. interest, and the Dominion liable, how t;':h Mn nLLu:s yonu are bound to capitalize I $ | was it that Ontario serip running from one to tns; yearly payments, hcc:\jue they have ' twenty years was sold the otherday for 194! ? A 1 ty met every year . Now at Ottawa f Then they would say that the scrip of the Do-- :'l"' er an obligation equally strong, and under t mimon was worth more than :hc'eu-ri') of the [)l." ha '.""m!m'l in Act equally binding, the Province of Ontario. With reference to the mmion Government had to pay annually the liabilities he went on to say that he had Leen sum of $5,472,207 to the various Provinces. ' charged very untairly with understating the Enat sum capitalized represented $69,456,000. h_"biiities of the Province. BHMe had ufwwi w "ml'hl ask if hon, gentlemen had ever de-- ',} given the liabilities at a larger sum than \.\'A-'u nounces !'hc Ottawa Government for deceiving & really necessary, and he lind assumed some the people because, being bound to pay this $ liabilities which at a close calculation were not y large suim, the Finance Minister h"'r never € . chargeable as such,. _ 1t had been said that they | capitauized it? But he supposed one system of o p did not assume as a liability dirscs payinents | bookkeeping would do for the Conservative $ ¢ on account of railways. l"«»x"ya,:u's tiey meahuim-- | Government, and ancther for the Retorm Gov-- & e ed the liability with reference to the e"'bbuur(' | etnment ; and that because we, having guaran-- K Peterboro', and Marmora Railway, the grant to } teed the small sum of about $186,000, and 3 i " whid; rq.x}l had lapsed. He also had assumed kxym'm;.: it will be paid out of the ordinary re-- «B & ,.f.' » .(';s & h'abn'ht'..v the gl:ant to the Montreal and s ) ct';_p!{j.l.lxa\'c'lxot c;npit..cliz««l it and treated it as ts s ttawa Railway, The amount so assumed was a habtlity, that therefore we h ave done wrong. | {* hk ,.' k Would the hon. member for North Grey deny % 7 F &