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all the time, and I will prove that to the satisfaction of the House, it _ not to the satisfaction of the hou. gentlieman. . Betore I do that, however. let me refer to the complaint made that we were not willing to have the mat-- ter tried in the Manitoba Courts ; that we struggled against such a course, . We had a right to struggle against it, It would have been an act of biindness, or worse, on our part if we had been willing for this matter to have been tried in the Manitoba courts,. _ EKvery person can see that the c urts in neither Province should try the case, and the only satistactory thing would be to have it adjudged by other courts than !.he Provincial courts. To have raised this question in the Maniteba courts would have caused far more delay than a reference to the Supreme Court or an Euglish ex--judge, and we refused to assent to that proposal because of the delay,. Again we refased to allow it to be settled by the Manitoba courts for the reason that the Manitoba judges had prejudged the case ; they _ had _ been _ holding _ their _ courts there ;-- they -- bhad been fining and _ im-- prisoning our -- officers | because they _ had contended that this territory was in (Ontario and nothin Manitoba. It was, he continued, a rule with which lawyers were famihar that it was | the Executive and not the Courts which had to co | | with the question of boundaries, That had been | held both in Euglish and the United States Courts, and all the Courts had to do was } to decide as to who had actually possession, and : they concluded that that Government had juris-- | diction there without entering into the question | "of right. 'The Manitoba Courts would certainly | have held that it was in possession of Manitoba. When twotiovernments claiined a 1tgh}t to be in a territory, a Manitoba judge would }. d the terci-- tory to be in his own Province, mwl it would have been impossible for him to have comgto any other decision. It would have been perfect madness to have gone to the Manitoba Courts unless they could not have helped themselves ' from going there. THE RIGHT OF PossEssiON,. I As to the question of possession, on this point -- there _ was _ really no _ rooum _ for doubt about the fact of Ontario hav-- ing been in possession of this territory before the Province of Manitoba pretended in the slightest degree to have been there. 'Take for in-- stance what the Premier of Manitoba said when he was urged to go and take possession, He stated | that whue willing and very eager to have the question settled, yet he considered it a meddic-- some interference for them to go to Rat Portage,. 8So Mr. Norquay pronounced it actually ineddie-- some interference, and it would certaanly have been meddlesome interference if be had gone there. South and east of the height of land < Ontario had always been in exclusive possession. For the territory west of the height of land they ' passed an Order in Council on the 11th March, 18579, appointung two stipendiary magistrates, Un the 2uth of June of the same year tuat these gentlemen were appointed, one, Mr. Lyon, went there, so that he had been in the territory ever since June, 1879 ; about two years before Mani-- toba was there. Mr., MEREDITH--Was that Act disallawed * Mr. MOWAT--The Act was disallowed, it is true, and we passed another in 1880. (On the 25th May, 1880, an Order in Council was passed establishing a Judicial Court at Rat Portage, and it was not until after this was done and Mr. | Lyon held a Court for the trial of civit matters, i and after the Manitoba Extension Bill was pass-- | ed by.the Dominion Government, or in Sept. ' 1881, that Manitoba took uny steps to take nos: session. So that the simple facts demonstrate | that Ontario was there loang before Manitoba | went there, and it was Manitoba who was inter-- | fering with ()ntario in the possession of the coun-- try,. (Cheers.) What, said he, did the Opposi-- tion contend that we should have given up poss-- ession as soon as the Province of Manitoba wont | there, and have quietly gone away ? 'Tue | | people of Ontario would not have endured it. The Opposition contend that because Manitoba chose to go to Rut Portage we should have abandoned the cuunt,riy awarded to our possession, 'The -- answer to that is that it can be demonstrated : that a court of justice would have decided that our abandoning the oount.qr gave the case away : i that ainc'e cansideration --deamanetralas 'the nro-- that single consideration demonstrates 'the pro--| priety of our remaining there, for if wo had gone away we should have, by that act, decided the matter againstourselves. -- Continuins, he said : --Manitoba had no right there. but if they had abandoned the territory they would have been beaten imevitably. By retiring from the territory they would have been invitingy Manitoba to take possession of other parts not then actnuaily in dis-- pute, and they certainly would not have contined their o erations to Rat Portage. _ Because they lhad resisted Manitoba and without sheds ding blood had done ail that could be done to maintain the position thore they hbad thuas brought about a settiement which could never have been hoped for otherwise. _ There wore a variety of reasons he might give to modifi the have been hoped for otherwise. _ There wore a variety of reasons he might give to modifi the course they had taken of hoiding on to the term« tory, -- The course that had boeen taken to induce thein to leave the territory was sufficient justili-- cation for remaining in possession,. MNANITOBA'8s CHANGE OF FRONXT. When it was seen that it was pertectly plain that Ontario was not going to leave the territory althougzh two of her officers had been taken to _ Winnipeg, ani _ another _ rud _ en Ontario's -- representatives by a larger forge being sent ; that they werk not going to leave and had strength enough to remain--then Manitoba no longer continueG. lis Hrsv Doney, He would show that it was quite plain that so far from tho charge of a change of front lying with this CGovernment it shoald rest with the Mani-- tobr CGovernment. In an inferview printed in the Winniveg Times on the 7th Aug., last year, which was the Government org&n there, and he presuwed priated in that paper because Mr. Norquay wished the interview to appenrvzmd go to the public. _ In this interview Mr, Norquay stated that his Government would not permit Ontario to exercise jurisdiction at Rat Portage ; that ii Ontario officials shoulid pretend to admin-- ister authority there he would cons der it an in-- terference with the peace, and would ask Ontario to remove all her officials ; that if they attempt-- ed to arrest porsons his (Government would _re-- sent such action ; that it was inrpossible for both Governm mnts to exercise authority there without a clash ; and that bis Government had made_ up its mind to act with energy and dec sion. Fur-- ther, to the same effect was an Order in Council of the 8th August, 18$3, in which the Manitob& Government protested against the interference of the Government of Ontario through its officers at Rat Portage ; objected to their presence 'there ; announced the intention of the Government of Manitoba to enforce its laws and in intain ex«-- isting institutions established thereunder ; and stated that tnat Governmment would hold the Government of Ontario responsible for any evil consequences in the past, as well as for any in-- terference in the future. -- Nothing was said until after this time of its boing the object of desire of the Government of Manmitoba to have the ques-- tion of right determined by the Courts ; and in the interview referred to, the Premier declared that Rat Portage was unquestionably in Mani-- toba. In these simples statements be had demonstrated as to the policy of Manitoba in Rat _ Portage. -- lie could further _ state tuat Manitoba on the 28rd October, 1883, gave not.ce to all the persons holding Ontario licenses that uniess they took out Manitoba licenses they would be prosecuted. -- When that was learned by the Ontario magistrate he increased his force so as to defend the position assumed by the Pro-- vince, and the result was seon in no attempt be-- ing made to enforce that ordor. After taking Ontario's constables prisoners the firmness and prudence shown by Ontario demonstrated the fact that it was quite impossible for Manitoba to succeed in the policy pursued and that this Pro-- vince was not going to léeave the territory and was ssrongz enough to remain. 'Then, said Mr. Mowat, | received intimation that.Mr. Milter and Mr, Norquay were willing to have the diff-- culty settied by compatent authority, and I sent a telegram aad Mr. Miller came down. These facts demonstrate sufliciently plain that it was cur claim to the territory and resolution to stick there, and were strong enough to maintain ourseives there, that secured far better terms than any previously proposed, No on these grounds when they came to ask the House to assent to the terms of the agreement, he was satisfied it would be granted. (Cheers.) _ _ _ Mrc, MOWAT--Certainly not. It merely re-- fers to the boundary, The arbitration had nothing to do with that question,. 1 hold it to be perfectly clear that we should be entitled to the land. Sir John -- Macdonaid iwmself said we should be entitled to the land, and he gave that as the reasoun that he Opposed Ontario. He said that if it were handed to Ontario we shoutd have the lana, and certainly he had no doubt whatever that the land belonged to Ontario. Me concliyd. ed his address by venturing the opinion that when the matter was fully laid before the people of Ontario, that among the many difficulties this Government had to do.l with they would recog-- nize that they had concluded the negotiations as satisfactorily as any that had ever ended. (Cheers loud and prolonged.) After recess, Mr, MORRLS resumed thae debate. -- He open-- ed by remarking that if Mr. Mackenzie had passed anticipatory legislation there would have been no trouble and noneedfor the present dis-- cussion, HMe stated that Mr. Mowat had onee refused to grant incorporation to Rat Portage. Mr, MOW A'T --Not because we were not com-- potent to do it, but because the steps they had taken were irregular. I Mr,. MORRIS still continued to assort that the Government had not granted an incorporation: because they were not competent. He cohtinued by saying that after needlessly spending: a large amount oi money, Mr, Mowat had consonted to enter into an agreement when hbe found that the conduct of his officials at HKat Portage had in-- volved him in an apparently inextricable diffi-- culty, Me charged the CGovernment with keep-- ing the disputed territory and the Province generally in a state of -- turmoil when a settlement could have been arrived at. Some time ago Mr. Mocris cailed the attention , of the Commissioner of Crown Lands to the fact that there were nine million mcres of rich} agricultural lands in the castern distriets of Un.) tari0, and he asked it he had paid any attention!| to having these rich lands expiored and opened| for settlement, and thmz_.'nt he would have been better employed in this than in campaigning in Algoma. Mr. MORRIS district north and Mr, MIhdy1IJ1JM asiced it the agreem posed to settle the ownershin of the land. ¢,, . _ ;,j . ~. _ 0 _""0",'4008 eXpiored and opened for settlement, and thought he would have been better employed in this than in campaigning in Algoma. Mr. PARDEE--The hon. gentleman does not seem to be aware that this district is in Algoma, M»e -- MAPpDro vig w C c E Mr. MEREDITH said that llc';-lll'\"uil;d.';:) &ht;, west of Lake Nlpiufl_iflg. and| continued . 1ts first policy. vas quite plain that so far ked if the agreement pro--