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'PToge' t ," 5 yeiing s . >> hy L. f -- paiaee n o ----»yrar" ~* { * hy ~ d -- !ll'ht of discussing 1)\lb]i¢?il;;,t--te--r:l. and represent-- | \ lieve in interfering with air municipal institu-- ; $1~ ;:L' E"b!le opinion so that the Government was in | tions, but he agreed goig, WAs a question for | M 4 ',:.u:'.nt of receiving .advice, but he wonl.d ask | whigh some remedy ongn 2 be. p_ruvnded. 1f i 13 s Ahe .e:r ;hore was anything in the cirecum-- our institutions were ever _ tail it would be | ~ HL" ' the con?i the case which would w::;rgnt because of tl}e expenso atteyng them. | 2 ' t of things 9""11;000 of t'hls Pwflcm;' condition | | Mr, MOWAT said he bad istened to the de~ & C goiunty :o'; i was fll-r:lhel' fPOl"Le_' 0":'; that bate with great pleasure, espor 1y as it had been | ; thoke entcr'il:,:l s"\\ exet:;1 5\.nd o _tr:u:ut.'m :cfol(g to ; | dwcuuial without any part? feeiing, except on | ® o Tseral ing upon the more !r.n)Eu.:: ant field of j the part of the leader of tie Opposition, who ~ this H'(':";l:l} fl;t') Le;.'m..ul.'w or I .dl!;}n]ent. In commenced his remarks by» aying the Govern-- ; £ 18 16 wee members irom Simcoe we aj 5 j a . 5 q '~ members of the County Council. _ But while tl:: lf!:;:ntzvl:x:lleu f;:!l:i ::ug"l m neiies pusstions | § A people might be willing to pay something for ' Myr, MEREI)[TH._I mid three years | 4 6 this, yet, he thought, they were not willing to | Mr. MOWA'T was ghd to hear gheh .tlmt lis r'g ;};e armount now being enforced. Suggestions | hon. friend aclcxlowlé(god the Government had | gan svsiom ut diviuing the conntioe mto slectunal | potoemaine es ie inss ||3 « districts, and électing every two or three yoars a | fIlls 1hm.l'. friend had alluded to the fact that if our KE manto representthem at the County Board. Again, | it l\g : H glt)b.";) 01- ;,voverfnmenc fporse Sthariiitig. i% | . it was proposed that the powers of the Township 'fhu( d kl' fe'.:i":]""' °1. t;;"' expense attending it, [ Counciis should be extended and give them full l mmen hh ui ho Mss n AEOmIPATIUE the Do-- A _ V | minion with other countries, that the expenses of P power to doal with county roads and bridges, | the former y l | At the present time every road was considered a | Mb t)l.me: were K'.e",fr thgn any of the latter, | 3 county road which divided townslups, and every | ;ilzl::c'p\a. llllt;tutl% * frolm the"}owushlp o P ere bridge upon these roacgs as county bridges, and | ue up, Ware ol . Sttih. YAdC hen they were ) A l l o arf : +s | first established it was «aid by men of high repu-- it was proposed to put all these on the townships tation th icipaliti ld b f except the roads and the bl'li]gud on 'hclu dn'id. t'l ..ll)ll'l te ")u!"lclpla' ities wou e du.u;zcrou:«" to to ul ing the counties. Again, it had been proposed | reodblga iob se CY would be so many sucking {--4 ; to wipe out the ( 7--\lynt;."('«)";x:.-il.s' as clective bodies | :fipdol:m P ul far from their having proved C caPr a and by the extension of the powers of this House | l..u.\'geu'u.m, elfm'f'y the reverse had occurred. . A | do much of the work here. lie was not in favour pew. 'i"'t-t ie 'lt,]!e prosperity we have «enjoyed Es | of this, Another one was that instoad of having | ?fi'w o n uh % eknnt has been owins T0 9i. ] f A deputy--reeves, give one man the vote of all, but Dq e po;\crs el, the_ inuniofnalities at first ate |*=] | he could not support such a scheme. 'The only :E's It;m'll t!xe lp.o.vers they have now, 'I ' o other scheme was that introduced in the bill of he .c;;ls atcre has been going on adding i the member for North Midd!lGsexiof Inoreating | to their powers from time to time, and the:s is «l 4 the number of votors entitling the munici-- probably not & session passes in wiich f 2 rllities to additional representation, but as he they do not add to '!'e powers of Couty Councils ird pointed out at the time the bill was con-- and other local bodics, and almost all such legis-- § sidered, the obvious objection was that it would lation has been approved of by both sides of the tend to increase the disparity at present existing l\{ouao, With regard to the positions of County 1 m K between the amount part by the municipalities Councils there is no doubt a pretty largely felt 3 e: < and the number of representatives. Taking his sentiment that they are too large for the work 4 f township he found that it paid about they have to do, _ He was not aware that his oo $3,000 'into the County Treasury, while predecessor had talked of taking up this subject R about twelve -- municipalities _ only " 'paid | a until his hon. friend bad just stated it, but he € similar amount altogether. _ Hoa concluded by | know he had called his (the sperker's) attuntiou'l remarking that bhe had been asked from many "to it when he took his place as a question likoly | ! quazters to continue lus course upon this matter, to come up. _ The sponker had given attention York County Council had asked that the number jto the suvject, and lad always endeavoured to | o 3 be diminished, and the Acricuitural and Arts scertain the ft;elmg of the'ooum._ry on it. _ He | & 4 4j Association had moved in favour of the changse. found the fecling h'.'d been growing in favour of w oR 1 Mr. DRYDEN agreed with the motion. Me reduction, not largely, but still growing. | The --| $s % was of the opinion that a great deal of the difficulty in t.lvw way, however, was the finding of a ts business could be 'done by county valuators and { a remedy, No stroug opinion was entertained LCA county assessors. _ The only argument in favour | on any proposed remedy. The appointment of 5 of the old system was that the County Council ! the committce was the best thing that could be [A was an educational institution where our young done under the cireumstances, and he hoped the t &JJ men could be educated to fill higher positions in comunittee would be able next session to give | $ the legislative halls, but the question was as to them all the facts regarding the matter. . 'The ) [ whether it was worthy of such a large expendi-- result would be one of two things,. It would [®) § P ture of money. e}thcr satisfy the country the presont system was [ M e 1 Mr. MoKAY sard the expenditure last year of the best on the whole that could be devised, or "| W . ) the Council in his riding was less than $4,000. Ho the committeo wot_lld be able to suggest a system S a n ' approvcd of the motion and was in favour of that would be an m'prevement. , " --7 2 seme schemse being adopted by which this large Mr. CREIGHTON found that last year the 4 expenditure could be reduced,. expenditure for County Councils varied a great P Mc. OCONNOR favcured the motion. Ho deal. In 1879 the county of Simcoe paid to R thought the principle of limiting the number of councillors some $6,079, while _ thke county of + t county ecouncillors bad alread; been admitted by Brant pa.id but some $300. The amount per 4 FETA : the House, because in the Act giving farmers' head paid to the mombers of the County Coun-- y * + kons the right to vote the Government had re-- cils were :--For Bruce, $40 per head ; Girey, $64 ; A 4 sessions of these councils,. They discussed other Hastings, $75; and Simeoe, $112 per head.. In questions affecting the public mind. Ontario during 1879 there were some 990 County _ 6 Mr, GIBSON (Huron) thought it wou!ld be Counciliors, averaging an expenditure of about * 3 i just as well to let things as they wore, In the $46 per head, 'The great objection urged te § jpunty of Huron the expenso to each ratepayer against County Councils was the question of ' 42. + on account of counctilors' indemmnity was ten ' | expense. In the county of Grey it was about s f cents. _ If the representation was reduced by the | three ceats per head of the population. If they $ deputy--reeves t?w cost would be reduced to four | were going to decrease the expense it should be cents each ratepayer,. 'This decrease in expense a sensible decrease. Tho plan of forming the | $ was a sma'l matter, county into electoral districts was forwarded by | f Mr. BANTER did not think there was a the hon. member for Simcoe. This plan was strong deomand in the country for reducing the | open to a serious objection, as if the area of these | f ' representation in county councils, and there was districts was of any size--the--election would be-- $ $ '»'1 no complaint of the expeme, 'The people are ! come a political one, which would be disastrous & & f greatly wedded to our municipal institutions, to the municipal institutions, (Hear, hear.) i f and the councils were doing an admirable work, | He suggested that instead ot a popular election A Moe thought it might be well to leave it optional | the members should be elected in some imanner with theo :arger counties to reduce the represen-- | by the different Townsutp Councils of the county, tation. He was heartily in accourd with the resolution, | ! Mr. PHELPS looked upon the question mere» There was another question which had agitated ' f ly as a matteor of cost, lPu thought it zight be the people, and one which the House would have ; : | well for large countiecs to be divided up to deal with, Tnat was the reduction of the | into districts larger than townships to send rc= meimbers of the Legisiature, HMe belioved that | presentatives to the county councils by which the gentiment of the country was that a sm dier | the number of representatives might be lessened body would do the business of the Province ard the expense Jimini*hud. while the poeople much more expediently and inuch more economi-- would still be represented. e was in favour of cally than at present. t § the motion and having the whole question inves-- | _ Afr. MORKRIS expressed his satisfaction that | M tigated. the (Government were about to accord to the 4 Mr. CARNEGIE reiemad to the opportuni-- member for Simcoe a cominittee to investigate | ties that villages and municipalities had of in-- this subject, The hon, gentieman thoroughly : | creasing the reprosentation in county councils, understood his subject, -- Jle was highly in favour f It was an oper question whether tarmers' sons | of the appointmont of such a committee. & j | snould be counted in when ascertaining if a Mr. Bl{UUEI{ questicned if there was a feel-- | | inunicipality was entitled to send a deputy-- | % ing in the country that the county councils were | reeve to the council. This question should be | too expensive, -- The matter should be seriously e | settled one way or the other by the House, » looked at before making a change in the munici-- ) ' | _ Mr. LEES favoured the reduction in represen-- | pal institutions, 'The school system depended . | tation to from 10 or 20 members. | upon the good working of the municipal institu-- 3 | _ Mr. MACKENZIE said the foeli. * in favour i t ons. -- It was a strange township which was not | of reducing the representation had bty a growing | able to sond tw» or three men to the county coun-- 3 7 | of late, but it was not sufficiently sbemg as yet | . cil for a few days,. _ | \ W 0 |\ to sanction the HMouse making a redu¢con, \| '| Mr. PRESTON thought the motion was in the ! | _ Mr, MEREDITH said this was atizatter the ' | right direction. They should get all the infor | | Government should have taken up M 3 dealt | mation possible on this important subjoct, a | with by them,. _ He charged the (2"=----pent ' Afr. KOKE objected to the House woing to any | 4 with a failure to deal with practical »V°thi/ons, , great expense on n question of this kind, when ; The question here was one of expense, ' We in-- | the remedy was in the®hands of the people,. | -- M stitutions of the Province were many and expeu-- | '__The motion was carried, and the following | sive, from the tow nship conuncils up to the Luocd i Committee was appointed to take the matter | 2i 1 and" Fogerat Legislagyires. He did not be~! | into consideration :--Messrs Dryden, Waters, | ®