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34 E O Caiint>"© vindronaie 1. Airadairtilreircte n Arisciz ds ds 24 01004001 :fl" to all newly granted lands, but now I k it would be inexpedieant to do so, We have bhad petitions from aimoset all the Councils in the Province in favour of that Act, but of course the system has not boen theroughly discussed. These petitions are owing to the fact that a very active orgamzation has been formed, whose publications have been sent out in all quarters, but the suf-- ficiency of the proposal has not been discussodi. Mr. hl'JBEDl'F)H --The hon. gentleman has not faith in the soo:ety. Hon. 0. MOWAT--I have the greatest pos-- sible faith, Here is the Act itself, No copies have been distributed anywhere and of course, therefore, I cannot say the people are acquainted with the details of the measure. All that they know is the goneral character of it and the gen» eral object of it set forth in the publications of this seciety,. _ 'To a certain exteat we and 1 do not know whother Sir Alexander Campbell has or not. On the whoie I think it is desirable to have one. Mr. McCarthy provided for raising a fund by charging one--quarter of one cent on the' doilar, In every case whare this has been tried the amouat raised has been more than sufficieat to pay the expanses, 'and in soms cases no G@raft whatever upon the fund bhas been necessary. They charge a fee for every title of onesquarter cent on the dollar on the valus of the land. we lio?atolimit it in the first place to the I%of eronto and the county at York. r. MEREDITH--Is it not to apply to newly granted land«* Hon. 0. MOWA'T--No, not even that. We have considered that, ana think there are some objectious to that just now. By--and--bye I ex« P'ict't?t the country will desize that it snouid be Mr. MORRIS--Hon. Alexancgor Camptzel! has :lntmduul one in the Senate, I have a copy ere. on O, MOWAT--Indeed, I was not aware of that. I bope we may succeed in introducing the system hbere. Every clause has--to be considered, and some modified, for the purpose of making THE MEASURE EPFPECHMVE. Personally, I haves no dasire to limit it, yet, on ;I:Q'_ whole, I think that is the wisest way to tm. Mr, MEREDITH--Wouid the hou. gentle-- man give us an idoa of its provisions? Will it be necossary to appoint any wew oflicers ? Mr. MOWAT--One new officer is noces-- sary. In ome _ colony -- be is _ called & Commissioner, and in another aMaster of Titles. I have adopted the latter mame. My objeet is that in the meantime the dutie« shall be discharged by some porson hold~ ing anoiler pesition. _ 0 _ _ Mr. MEREDITH--Does the Bill} propose any guarantee fund, and if so bow is it to be pro« vided? Nér. Mills when hbe was Minister of the Interior. This was to apply only ' to the Doeminion Territory, Weli, Sir, Mr. McCartby has tanmos introduced a bil! for the same purpose, and 1 have no doubt wili do so again this year. Hon. 0. MOWAT--In almost every law passed on the subject there his been a cuarantoe tund provided fer. 'They have not in England, and I have some doubt whether it was necussary or not, Mr. McCarthy, 1 potice, had such a provision, A GREAT MEASURE of law reform,. The point I intend to bring out is that the application of the measure should not be confined to the City of Toronto and the County of York. Iam sure the whole country wili regard it as a .great . evastom of law reiorm., For my own part, though 1 have thought a good deal about the Torrens Sy)tem, I did not think it would come in force herse tor several years yet, and I do most heartily congratulate the Attornaey. Gencral in bringing this measure before the House. The difficuity and expense of investiga -- tion of titles is folt all over the country and I am sure the country will rejoice to know that a now system is to be introduced. _ I cannot. however, see under those circumstances any reason why it should aot be extended to the wheole country and I trust the Attornsy--Ganeral will give it to the whole Province. muet still regard it as an experiment, but at the same time when such a revolution is proposed itis well to know that it is not anovelty, that it has been tried in various colonies and has Mr. MERBDMTH--Do you propose to provide for the validity and exchange of old titles under this system * Ho»n. 0. MOWAT--The Bill adopts them. Mr. YOUNG--I riso to say that I recognize this as besn MEASURE 1sS RICGHT PROVED SUCCESSFUT was an amount of $250,643 63 from the sale of aunuities authorized by the Statute of last sos-- smou. -- Under the Act of last session tenders lhhad been asked for the sale of those annuitios,payable either in Canada or England. _ 'The imost favour-- able tender recsived was one payable in Canads, and it had been accapted, the rate being at a fraction below 4$ par cent. Last session, when introducing this matter into the fiasocial statement, -- he -- had stated -- that zbout the _ above _ amount would be -- what : they _ would be able to sell tae annuities for. That statement of what the ex-- ' pectation was had been accepted by the House as natisfactory, at least no exception was takan to it. ' Considering this was the first issue, he thouzht the price obtained was a vory good one; at the same time he expected we would be able to do butter in future if we saoulid have auy to place upon the market. It might be asked why the annuity plan had been adopted. One resson was --& reason that actuated most municipal institu-- tions--that it was better to havs m portion of the securities falling due each year, and by that. means aveid the troubple and expense . connmected with the kseping of accounts when investing jin a sinking fund. The saving of expsase necessarily connected with a sinkins fond was in itsolf an item of consider~ able importance. It had boen contended by some, that if we had issued an amount sufii-- cient to tike up the whole of the outstanding railway certificates, namoly : something over two million doliars, and had placed the loan upon the London market, woe would have been able to realize a beiter price for our securities. Such a projosition, he thought, would not commend it-- self to the Houss or the country. _ 1t was never | inteadod tuat we shou'd every year _ take up | theseo _ railway certificates uy an issue of new annuities, it was only in case from | year to year there should be a deficiency in our revenue, that we might it necessary renew those © certificates by the issue of new ones, but in any year when our receipts mircht be sufficient, they would be taken un and paid out of the consoli= dated rovenue, It would have baen very unwise . to have issued now certifGicates for the whole of those falling due during the erghteen years to come, merely for the purpose of getting a larse loan placed upon the London market. _ Another objection to that course would be that ns we all know tha rate of interest had. been decroasing Es n EUC 240008 ; i B iA u410 ET CC VHW.' 000, whereas thoy had reesived $211,353.71. VFrom a st:tement which had been handsd to him by the officers of the License Departmant it ap-- peared that the estimmate of the revenue from Ontario lioenses had been as nearly as possible the sum roalized. From a stitement of the Do-- mimion liconses issued it appeared they wors principally _ confinsd _ to _ hotei _ licenses, There _ had bean 3,217 Ontario _ hotel licenses isued, and 182 Dominion licenses. Dowinioc shop iiconses 14. 15 would be noticed that the statement of receipts contained an item which had not appsared in any of our former stateausute of the revenue of the Province. It Hon. Mr. ROSS said he had not made special inquiry in rozard to that, but he believed they were greater ; that it had not been the practics of the Crown Lands Department to collect the dues, although the timber was cat, but they were allowed to stand untiil such times -- as it had _ bean disposed of or _ shuipped. The House would be glad to know that the ex-- pectation in regard to the revenue from hquor liquor liconses had been fully realized. ('I'Om eatimated reveaue from that source was $200,-- 1 t PR ARECant HO POPMUVV,--THCEOEE UIG PG+ ceipts had only been $570,000, or a deficiency of $119,695. 'Consideriug the fact that the depression in the jumber trade had been so geoneral during the past year, had been even more severs than had been experienced for many years, extending not only throughout our own Dominion, but to Eng-- jand and the United States, be thought the re-- tuens from that source were very reasonable, al-- though much less than had baen anticipated. _ IF TL PROT CCA tmiire tatrt wl rlatPesins insl Htacdstict s Mr., MEREDITH asked if the arrears due by the bolders of tinber l1mits at the end of the opra= sont year were groater thau at the end of the previous yvear. to year by year. The Dominion, a few years ago, were obliged to pay 6 per cant. on loans _ made. They _ are now _ getting loans at four per cent The necminal iseue is three and a haif, but he understood the price was praeticaily four per cent. He (Mr. Ros«) in-- stanced a number of large loans that had been effected during the last few years to show that the rate of interest was decreasing year by year, and he thought it would be a joily to issue all the certificates now and act benefit by the anti=-- cipated decrease of interost,. Tenders had been received tor the amount lately issued, payable in England,at the rate of four and threg--eighths per cent., and it migzht be asked why the higher tender, payable in -- England, had not been accepted in preference to the lower tender payable in Cauasa It had bean thought much more advantageous to acoept the one payable in Canada, theroby escaping msany charges for commmission, broksrage, and other things. It was much better that they should be paynble hero and we should escape all those in-- cidental charges that were connected with loans payable out of the country. 'The Dominion Government were paying at the present time on He found for instance that Now Zealand de-- bentures bearing four and one--half per cent. were sold in the Engiish market at frowm one hundred and one to one hundred and three. Those for Quobec bearing four and a half were saicable at one hundrod and one to ome hundred ard three, so it was manifert trat we had recaeived as good & price as is obtained for similar securities oven when they were payable in the Old Country. There was one other item in the recsipts to which he would draw the attention of the House, It was the item of interest derived from the capital held by the Dominion in trust amovuating to two huadred and seven thon-- sand nine hundred and three doliars. Honourable gentlomen would see that we derived $71.207 more than we bhad ever received before. 'That was a half year's interest upon funds placed to our cradit by the Dominior, and paid to us in July urder the Act passed last year at Ottawa. It would be remembered _ that last year he had drawn the attention _ of the House, in referring to the accounts submitted by the Dominion, to the fact that they bave charged interest upon the excessive debt between 1867 and 1873, which was before that debt was assumed. It woulid be remembered that be contended that by the construction of the Act of 1873 we were ENTITLED TO BE RELIEVED FROM THAT INTER®ST as ftrom the date of '67;that by the Contederation Act it was provided the Dominion should assume the -- whole of the detxs of the late Province of Ciurade, and _ they shouuid -- b--gaime -- legaly liable« for them, that they should altogether as~ milite to the extest of s x yveiwo muillions and a half, -- In '78 it was found that the deht of tue Province had amounted to $73,006 084 84. An Act was passed relieving the Province fczom that debt, and the Province assuamed it. _ By the constrnc-- tion of that Ac. he hawd claimed jast year that the wording of it was rea'lly a relief for the Pro-- vince from the date of '67 instead of from '73, but in the Domimion account with the Provinees they had ciiarged us witu intorest between °67 and 73, and he hnd claimed that wo should have a credit to the extent of_over two and a half mil-- lions, Onatario's share. That contention had been scoffsd at by hon. woutlemen opposite. Mr, MERE DITYH --Hear, hear. Mr, ROSS--Tahey staited it was a constraction whaoily unwarranted and one that shouid not be tistened to for a momeat. They said we bad no Blr, MENIDILII--Doés net the purchaser usuully re--seil theso securities in the English market * Mr. ROSS said he did not know in regard to that, but he was at present dealing with what would be the charges entailed upon the Province if the loan was payab'le out of the country. The Dominion (Government last year remitted to Engiand $5,116,790, upon which they pard as exchange or discount $15,863, or three--tentbs of one per cent. for the cost of transmitting the money there. A portion had been returned to Canada to meet liabilities here. Thoy drow on their agents in England to the extent of $3,815,000, and they paid a Giscount upon that of $28,499, or three--quarters of one per cont. for getting the money back.~ The Dominmion was subjected to very heavy charges for the purpose of having their loans p«yable in Engiand. Thacy bad an officer whoso duty he believed was to assist the financial agent in -- taking charge of the whole matter, costing _ the icountry ebout $40,000. _ All these charges were saved by having our loans payable here. We had no commiswion to pay e« ther for the sale, payiment, interest, redemption, or investment of a sinking fund. In regard to the price obtained, be had leoked at the quota-- trans of socurities as furnished in the Lonadon Economist, and found similar securities had been rated all new loans, one per cent. commission to their financial agent», besides that tihiey were paying brokerage of -- one--quarter per cent., which with stamp duties would bring it up to one--half per _ cent., On all _ investments in the sinkiog fund they paid three quarters per cent., and they paid on the redemo-- tion of their leoans one per cent. All these commissions were saved by haviug the securities payabie at the Treasucrer's office in Toronto. AT ABOUT TH® SAME FIGURE. the purchaser