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2 Smes o meeme WV Ees 4M0 NCAL proposiviOn 18 that they aro inadequate to the requiroments of the public service, and that, I think, NEEDS xO Proor, ! The mere aspeot of the buildings is sufficient | demonstration of that proposition. Without | reference to the state of the rooms in which the public business is carried on, they are not ado~-- quate, and we have beon compelled to rent additionai premises in which to carry on two of the most importagt of the Departments of the Government. I allude to the Attorney--Generai's D:spartiment and the Department of Public Works, so that it must be adimitted, that even as far as capacity is concern-- ! ed, they are not adequate to the requirements of | the public service, _ And then the third propasi-- | tion, that they are not in keeping with the re-- | sources and position of Ontario, as the premier | Province of the Dominion of Canada follows As a | matter of course. Now, for mysell, 1 have uo | hositation in voting for this resolution, but whay ; course the Government will take atter the resolu -- | tion is roted on is quite another thing. It is | | quitecloar that whatever courso be taken now , | the course that has boen takeon has demonstrated | beyond the possibility of doubt that haif a million dollars will not be sufficient. _ Wo have decided that beyond ail question, and the probability | is that three--quarters of a million wil be required, and 1 havo no hesitation in saying that if we are to have new Parliament Buildings, let us have buildings fitted to the business, and worthy the position, of the Province of Ontario, _ Mr, MEREDITH--Wait til > goneral clec'wnn. ie i elter the: nskt | carried out tor hall a million dollars, and it wili | not commence again until we ask the House to devote more money for the purp3se, So far a* ! this resolution is concerned L must say that [ | caunot seo why anyone should bave any difhoulty | in voting for it, Itis a repetition almost in terms | of the one voted on in 1880; it is & ropatition, al, I most identically, of the solemmu act of this Logi» lature, and therefore evory gentleman in this | House who voted for that measure will find no _ cdifticulty in voting for this, and 1 cannot under-- stand how any fair minded main can vote against it. The resolution now before the House con-- sists pract:cally of three propositions : first, that the presont Parliament and Departinental Build-- ings are unfit for occupation by the Loxgisliaturs, and I ask how can any candid inember of the Mouse say that they are fis for occupation by the Legislature? 1 am not ~"now {dealing with the question of the cost of" new build~ ings, but I ask how _ can any _ meimmber who has been in this Houso for any length of time, or, indeed, anyone who has only recently . come here, vote against this proposition? Are ! they fit for occupation? Are they decent builds | ings for the deliberations of a body of Provincial representatives from the great Provines of Ontario? I confess that any man who can answer yos to these questions has qnite different ideas as to what is tit and proper for this Legisliature from those held by me. The noext proposition :s o (900OO 0 nfepaman se Wls P I laiintar sbeciu is2 "om0, Cot . it M OHLHY responsibility resting upon us was to secure the ersction of new Pariiament Buildings if they could be put up for balf a tmilion doilars in a manner suitable for the wants and position of the Provinec:s. _ No one thing in my Depactment has enused ma more care, and anxisty, and con-- cern than I had with reference to carrying out the sanction given by the House for the erection of these buildings. 'The Government advertised & competition for plans ; plans were received, tondbrs advertised for, and step after step takan with the greatest care. _ A)l in;:)rma!ion possible was obtained, the advice of experts was obtained. The experts advised'that the plans could mot be carried out for the morey appropriated. Ti:e plans were re--modelled, specifications prepired with the u:most care, revised yet again, and at the end of two years' constaut work we found THE COxvIiOrION rorcen» vrox us that we could not go on with any hops of com-- pleting them for the «mount appropriated. And yot you talk about shirking responsibility ! When have we shirked responsibiility ? _ Our responsibiiity, with respect to the action of the Houss in voting money, ceased when wo tound out that the plans could not bo carried out tor half a million dollars, and it wili not commence ingain until ue nale ¥hom HF..cl. 1. sponsibility I e CC EV UV ", G"a,, 60 forit, but it is also true that he and Mr. Bell, then renresenting Weat Toronto, were the only two mambers of the Onpositron who voted for the J»ll and joined hands with us in declaring that now Parliament Buildings were nocessary. It has been charged that we have been dilatory, and that we have not taken action, whan the fact is that wo bhave taken the stand that the buildings aro necessary, and this, under the cireumstances, is the only thing we can do without further action b¥ tha II ... if f 44 $:__-- P0A Circle; althouczh he poses as the first lien'::ant of the l:ader of the Oppo-- sition, angd although it is sard that he is not without ambition and not withont hope of sitting on this side otf the H muse, considering all these circumstmzces, vot ho has never beon able upou a motion of this character to induce ons singlo member of the Opposition to vote wi h him. And I doubt whether he ever has attempted to make a si:glo frierd vote with him, IUt. Mimnimnires D Hon. C. ¥. FRASER&~--In 1880. It is true he himself voted for it, but it is also true that he arut Aisr Mull ahuus . _ _ _ __1_ 18 "TesH Eue / hlin his own political cirole; althouzh he poses As the fir«, ;; _ _ ~28) Circie; a Hon. C. F. Mr. MERE F7 angs y 2092 Coren Om Mr. M()RR(S---.\[ay I ask the | a voto hss been takan on the sul Hon. C. 1. FRASE t Yes, Mr. hl()l(i{lflu--\vm-n? ""'"',C' 1".' PRASEit--In 1880 C CCR TV NWH UV her action by the House, LDTITIT--Y¥ ou are shirking@ your re-- FRASKT--I dony that. The only reating upon us was to secure the new | Pariiament Buildings if they hrondy Aihu us V _ 30 d wilament Biidings if they alf a rilion dollars in a vauts and pmjmoti of the ing in my Departmont , and anxisty, and con-- ask the hon, gentleman the subject ? " o' ¢nS im not procgeeding with the erection of new Parliament Bui'dings aunder the Statute of 1880, when it was found that they could not be built for $500,000, 'but he contended that the de« claration then made by the House that the pre-- sent buildings wers not in keeping with tha TORONTO BEING THE for their erecticn, and with ter of the buildings, he « should bo in keeping with t vines holds, Ko proceedcd in the Houso of the questi new buildings, and read a the House to tho effect th suflicient to erect a new 6 wost end of the bnildings Dep rtment. He admitted was right in not proceeding new Parliament Buiidings t 1880, when it was found th built for $500 000 lyut lus w thikt, _3 _ ; _ _ _ _OAT PIMWWIOU ItD w11CG. _ IAG Qid AGG think that any imember on cither side of the Houss should havo any hesitancy in voting for tho motion. What is the use of being in the Mouse if he could no: launch out and vote as he chose for once Mr. MB <EDf PH, in dealing with a quostion of this kind, admitled that the Goverament woere met with greater difficulty than they ordinarily were, and ho wished the H use and the people to take this into considerition. _ So iar {rom acting from motives of jJealousy to Toronto, he asserted that there could unot be two opinions as to Mr, METCALEFE, after fu'll consideration, had come to the co.ciusion to vota for the new Pars linmont Building:. -- Nsither the hon. mertber for West York nor those fo= Toronto had converted him, but he had regard to hnmans principles, Hs noped the Government would take the vote aAs an expression of the opinion of the House and navo the buildings erecied at onece. Me did not think that any imember on cither side of the Houss should have any hesitancy in voting for tho motion. What is the use of being in the Mouse if he could no: launch out and vote as he those for nnce sooner Partiauinent Buildings wore ered ter for the Province of Oitario. -- In the motion he did so from an entirel siandpoint from that of any other -- n had spokon--lre egardecd 1t as a vote contileace in the Government, The C oib Prblio Works might laugh, but he that the Miaister's health had suffer state in which the buildings are. Hon. C. ¥. FRASELL--I vote war denée in the buitdines Mr sooner I 7 & © wl ons c C Aal Vl\" thlapidated, and objectionable from a health standpoint. _ 'Then, while he would not take the ground that the records of the Province were in great danger, yet they were in some considerable canger, And it is not in keeping with the wealth, importance, and character of the Province that the Parliament 'should meet in such a House, Winlst be had said this yet he would not force the hands of the Government, and in voting for the resolution he did so because it expressed his opin-- 10n, and not with a view of compelling the Goy-- ernment to precipitate action. _ His estimate of the cost of suitable build'ngs was _ $1,000,-- 080, and this had been arrived at from a consud~ eration of the amount spent on siimilar public buildings, t i fovinces, very much to the discredit of Ontario. Me pledged the votes of himself and his colleague for Toronto on all divisions relating to the new Parlhamont Buildings. And in conclusion he characterized the present buildings as the dirt-- iest, dingiest, and meanest buildings in the Do-- minion, Mr,. YOUN(C did not consider the Govern« ment wero shirking their responsibility, and instead of this they were to be commended for not going on with the buildings when they found that they would cost more than the amouut voted. _ He had not changed his viaws on the present buiidings. _ Thney aro half a century old, dilapidated, and objectionable from a health standpoint. _ 'Then, while he would not take the ground that the records of tho Provwinaa a.c. nc hh: in Nusnatinisealiirdinadiins iescs s are sufficient for the Province. Hon. C, F. FRASER--Point that to leader, Mr., CLARKE--Point it where you wil} procsed=d to describe the buildings in the Provinces, very much to the discredit of 0; Me pledged the votes of himself and his col for Toronto on sHH dvuistme s eetuanl on Pnd C OR N ut uts 04 00 iWtsn satosls nds Th d hk & 31000 indictment against the buildings ; they are * an old rovkery, mean, petty, amf niggardly," and he pitied the taste of the man who can say they are suflicient for tha Pravinaa 1 anl umss >\ : Pictvlth 0008 a dA it 1 AEC VY Parliament Buildings,ho does say that these are adequate; he only says that it is 'not the propar thing to ask him to pronounce upon the abstract question, and that the Ciovernment should taks the responsibility and bring down the plans, Mr, CLARKE thought the Govornment were unreasonable in asking the two members for Toronto to make an attack on the leader of the Opposition for the course he had pursued. The Government ought to be satisfied by their voting for the resolution. For his part he should voto for the resolution, and he would like to see what member of the House could conscienciously say that theso buildings are adequate for the Purlia-- ment or in keepiag with the position of this Province, e proceeded to formulate a terrible Auaf i ow N anirt t LCE I C EACITUCC mSNEm AAURCMT WULVIl the floor, and then I shall be able to consider this question from my own standpoint. If I decide to uo it as they ; have put themselves on record, they cannot go back on it." -- Tois is about the effect of his resolations. This is about the effect of lhis «mendment !ast session, -- Ho doos not say that it is not a proper thing to do to build new TJ . T Ck MAW / & 2 C Hon. C. F. FRASER--I can well understand the position of the leader of the Opposition. He reasons with himself:--*"If I am successful'in the nextelection the positron will be changed; I shall take the place of those Giri} fellows across the floor, and then I shall be able to consider this question from my own standnoint If I danida +. in the bacildings, s . METCALEE, after full consideration, had KW th a sueltselicuti c 2 iss thus -- r erection, and with regar the buildings, he conten Niptniseiiocht . RAY lhrac cuiun, and with regard to the charac« uildings, he contended that they keeping with the position the Pro-- Ho proceedcd to review the history 3 of the question of the erection of #3, and read a formor resolution of o the effect that $25,000 would be eroct a new fireproof wing at the the rl)ui)dnw'.i fer the Crown Lands A ldings 10 € ? admitted tliu.t:. i.lvxgfi(}ovcrmnent to go on and spend what they m come down with a plan and vuse,. 'This was the reason why inst the resolnution, come to the conslusion that the Buildings wore erected the bet-- v° VAsitio, -- in supporting > from an entirely dfferen; | it of any other momver who rardcd it as a vote of wanrt of verntnent, The Commissioner ght laugh, but he understeod health had suffered from the buildings are. Tney are half a century old, »jectionable from a health while he would not take the ds of the Province were in is of the l rovince were in ' were in some considerable in keeping with the wealth, dlogls> ® .& a . ' in keeping with the rITDEST PLACR voto want ot couf-- you will Ha in the various your yet in order to make political capital against the Government the whole Tory party bave been doing their best to prevent this good Tory city Mr, MORKIS--Are you going to vote for the motion ? Hon, 0, MOWAT--Undoubtedly I am going to vote tor the motion. I _ vote for all good motions, My hon. friend the member for London is going to -- vote against a motion which he believes in. Until now we bave had a furious opposition to the proposi-- tion of new Pariiament Buildings, My hon. friend has given a statement of only & part of what took place at Chatham, but he will not deny that at various placeos in that campaign he used the proposal of the Government to build new Paviamseat Buiidings as a means of creating political capital against the Government. His leading organ in the wost declaamed against the erection of new buildings, and urged the rejec-- tion of the Govermment's candidate kecause we had favoured the ercction of these buildings, Thoush there is not a member of this House who says that these buildings are not needed or that they are not " That all after the word 'thet' be strucic out of the resolution and the following inserted :-- The question of fthe propriety of, and the necessity for, the erection of new Parliament and Deparitmental Bulldings, as wo!l as of the provid« ing of the moneys necessary for their erecotiou, is one that ougxht to bo dealt with in the first instance on the responsibility of the Government, ard this House, while declaring its readiness to give its careful consideration to any proposition subtnits ted by His Honour's advisers dealing with it, is of ovinion that it ought not to be called upon to ex-- pre«s any opinion upon an abstract proposition as |_ to the erection of such buildings or untila definite proposition is submitted by His Honour's advisers for dealing with the question." Mit. MOWATs VIEWS Hon, 0, MOWAT--I am glad that my hon. triend the leadier of the Upposition has made such an advance in this matter. -- On former occa-- sions be attacked the necessity for new Parlia | ment Buildings«, but he does not make such an attack now. He does nct dispute the necessity | tor their erection and maiktes no attack upon the arguments brought out in support of the neces. mty for new buildings ; he maulces no attack upon the resolution, indeed he does not dispute one word in the resolution which he is going to vote against, _ Hae does not now dispute that the pre-- sent buildings are unfit for occupation. _ He in-- z _ doed says that this Chamber is fit for the purs | _ pose, but he cannot dispute that it is the onl part of the buildings at all fit for its purpose. H{ l has not one word to say acgainst the proposition in the resolution that the buildings are not ade. ! | quate to the purposes of the public service or : | against the proposition that they are not in keep-- | ing with the resources of Ontario as the | preinier Province of the Dominion, but | still he refuses to vote tor the resolution which { embodies these propositions. _ Ho tells us, how. [ | ever, that when tne (Government comes down ) with a proposal he will do, as he has done hefore, deal with the matter on its morits. I am atraid that my hon. friend would find some ground for acting against any proposition which we might lay before the House just as hefound ground for | resisting any scheme which wo laid before the House for dealing with any question on its merits during the past twelve years. My hon. friend wants the House to think that he and the Opposition are not under responsibility ; but their rosponsibility is just as definite, as positive, and as emphatic as thit of the members on this side of the House, Why haven't wao procesded with the erection of thess buildings? is asked, Well, ' THERE HAS BEEN NO CONCEALMEXT about it We recounized in this that the consti« tuencies were not prepared for a larger expendi-- ture than half a million. . We bslieved that the constituencies were prepired to sanction the spending of half a million, but we didn't think that _ they were prepared -- to sanction ' a -- larger -- expenditurse than -- that. It i is part of our duty as a (Government to ascertain the state of public opinion, and act up to it, and as the exponents of public opinion we have been able to pass a large number of msasures which have prommoted the prosperity of the country. | Whenever public optnion is prepared for this | larger expendituro we shall be prepared to deal with it whether it is this session or not. So far there is no shirking ; we have been doving what we ought to do, and we are not prepared to do more until public opinion is ready for it We believe that it is a good thing that the buildings should be erscied and any ons who attempts to lead public opin:on in a direction different from that which he knows to be right is responsaible $ uc usc uis io P ZHP m & T 1 Mc en ts e s o e en ete for what he does. My hon. friend often tries to mislead public opinion, and sometimes he has been successful in doing so, fo' ard in stating this he was going further than 10 was called on to go, and taking also a different course than usual, He was also oppossd to the issuing of terminable annuities for providing the funds, and he was certain that the country | was against such a manver oi raising the funds. Ho concluded by moving the foliowng ameonds ment ;---- Provines must be sufficient before mfi' schome was brought downu. He was not pre-- pared to voete for the resoiution; but he franicly gave his assurance that -- ag far as his party was concerned, or as far as he was concerned, that he would give a proposal from the Government _ a _ fair _ cons sideration on its morits. _ No further could he NEEDED HERE IN TORONTO,