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* e P +bA F s U ; GA " C * * & ~< M m es wWinnaane's .:Ri > noot y s P D chal n ~ . Lo f_r-- ' . : Wt re s . C n taF . * na hnd Mess . _ h & 6 Z? debate _ on -- the ballot question, | he yote had poee "Gas, AVL¢, 10. 811 how \ 8 .f' up in the -hq*e of an amendment | wag '_.' nt ha 's;' +893 33 nion. \ \to Cornmittee of Supply by Mr. Whitney ed out yp ut (RCVTREY--Generm then porz." I » >' shortly before recess. 'The Attorney--Gen-- the Domutioey h?d";x(ne ;'mw prevatiing i; | |,gral rose to reply, un the ilouse re--assemb, Reform Government in 18?46? tsd by the \ » & and deilvered a very comprehensive (tllc;en Mr.) Abbott and Sir 'JOE" j'lr John j > -- _ conclusivte speech against the argu-- ?ereggg lzfi)f,hffi" days expresseq fl'lezil;'i)or:- g f # nts and proposition put forward by the the El'ot:nd ";MUtl;]tfu'u'»_ SysStem, taking | : »4;/ J > . member for Dundas. -- He first pointed out + ple secured by the :'atj;!:gfi '}1')' the peo-- | P --| that the ballot was never a Conservative tection of fraud afforded by '"m't"h'\te de-- '| § measure,; and the present attitude of the :'::)10 v;}luaple than any increase o?"' xk Upposition was typical of the change of u.\,"'xg"thzr':*ifl };) the rival system. After | a C position they were addicted to. The bal-- the Dominion } S{'?"'m for sixteen years s lot had always been n RKReform measure, ecgnized that ',_?Vfl,n,"jmm had, in 1890, re-- | 3 and had been advocated by Reformers for by it was not efllik-' \\ stem of ballot used ) ¥, many years in the old country before it solute s'@cm,y u;;i;m,'l" securing the at,-- was adopted anywhere. When it was in-- Chapleau had brollx T]:'~' for it, and Mr. troduced in Ontario the then leader of the & Committee of Ignly '1;1 a motion to have Opposition and most of his followers had With reference to";:";;'":"rm appointed opposed the measure; and, on the other which 'was supposed to a :}ew' system $ . hand, it had been supported by the Re-- vantages, but which the ';';ue _-"?me ad-- ' 6 formers. Mr. Meredith was one of those ubjected to as })l:l-'in" 1«;0 C DX)?bhl()n h;fd who voted agzgainst the ballot at that the hands of the (;(,:,"_l_v)mfl.lum power in x Mik au _ in e t tho m i 4 0 nment. It was , k time. They bad condemned it then . be be remembered, too SIF Oliver rm e fehuse It gave secret voling. Then . thCy out, that only on an 'oz'.lcar lrmm lt! IZOI.n'H ; had been very strongly opposed to secrecy. could the ballots be seen'by ;m\'un]'L un'xrt Now there was nothing they were so much muny circumstances. It was ]_.k"je under . in love with as seerecy. . They were pre-- fore, for hon. gentlemen ~I)1)o%'1t\e' Jne.r,e'. j pured to sacrilice everything else to i1 that the system they proposed "avL:. tllb \ Mr. Whitrey had spoken once more .U! llng solute secrocy. One Favh a% "--rpa? \-(,'--4-")' )- \ chang« of opinion on the part of himself as the other. When the mvufi\'url'e \\ f"() ' in regard to his (Mr. Whitney's) bill re-- | troduced here the Government had Udi\ .";" ® 6 lating to punishment for bribery. .\!li vantage of the example of (:;-putl 1:;-1;:4'1., "3 * f Whitney had already x:av::mvfmd that lit-- His hon. friend Sl'l'.'x}rrm_ir ';.£ m;]x;; ti= bill to the House some 25 or 30 times. | quoting the usage of Gréat Britair a i He seemed to take a great deal of pleas-- | Me preforred following British sl]' B f ure out of it. Me wished he (Sir Oliver | when he could consistently do so 1,';1';1; Mowat) could take similar pleasure out of | case he did not do so as a ml'er of sen [ his legislation. The measure had not i liment, but because of the ],41.",,&,\,'1 'lr'l'l:.' T Y been passed exactly as Mr. Whitney had | and benefit of tho system !J:(-\'aili;."l('{'il'-.: tbrought it in, but he wis glad the hun._ The ballot was ;uiu:)led in 1399 ';l ;.'_";;. 4 gentieman took so much pleasure out of land after much debate and thuught"-\:';«i it. Mr. Whitney accused him of chang-- he had never heard of uny "'n'-xixlun | & ing his opiniors on th\{ question of man-- ar. strong siesire for A chatige ".{; ,:\\.m'_ hood suffrage also. This was not quite ney Lkad referred to Wigmore's book on u;-- the case. Me was sure he had never said bullot 'as containing evidence of dissatis-- or done anything adverse to the principle | faction in England with the present sys-- & * 'of manhood suffrage. lut']l.ld always be-- tem. He had looked through the book bu' # BHeved in it, but at the time the matter Eliasaie nds oo ow nrainer h ie first came up in the House almost all the pC v..lv" finga n l.:';:-':;, to berr out that view. Conservatives, and many of the Liberal Ul' any '«.,:.i--v-», lir. Wigmore was a nn-mbgf meinbers, had been opposed to it, and con-- | " "'," ."»"'ttr'u 'I;.n', '.:.Yu'n'cu!:lel' _'A('It"ui',' M;l-, s sequently he had deeimed it wiser to wait | | l' V ._~l \:}w ta;:,'nm»".l 'l:) '..11 .'u;\ (),l':l l;::. until public opinion on the subject had | ;(.'- .'",'" ..' nl..» on 'fi"t 1'1'.'"::- "Juv.lr '1'_" + * A 4 g | | were, however, passages in the book which ~ ripened. Now, in regard to the ballot | | Rentatato _ exasca d o aal on o o es b Wihare wore » vstems which | ccriainly seemed to speak of the sysiem system: There wore two systems w Las one tnat worked wel-- on ths wwhole IT revailed, and were worth considering. | xk PNHC ECE \'--'.\ll \f o Te 12. 10}-.: his Uara | oth« countries, moreover, the question }l'h»:n- was also the American system, |, leat sot be hy v4g) e nA TH a ¢ 'ar sue : and 1 iad not beery made a party matter, as which preceded these other systems, and ]]' c yea't 1 it ' nicceedea hE ACWALNRLY 4 one. It had been al-- | hon. ""'-".'l' men opposite had succeeded in was certainly a bad ons j making it in Ontario. Mr. Whitney had most abandoned by the Americans them-- ' j T ns l" :k ce obsoluce. Reon :\ selves. Both the other systems had or-- |Efged that the Iuck of absoiuite secret A | caused many people to be even afraid to pfeimated'. in . Ausinaila. / _ _One o ce tR 1 | vote. He thought this must be surely A y nds p | 4 ugat this & a . 3 use in some of the colories, and one in in ateinare i!-fh'\vl frever, heard. of Sygn the others. The system adopted by some ' "qmse, at uny _rste: Concluding,. Sit tralian colonies, by the Domin-- a case, at any rate. 'oncluding, -- Sir, of the Austra o s pngns & l (liver Mowat, bricfly recapitulating his ar-- j fon, and by some of the States, looked up in \v :B wA C g o prostur eves . nhaniitth Sorvecy is the great thing, suments, said he thought the presqut sys on absolute secrecy es ®'4 R e [ tein sufficiently secret for all practical pur«» ; above all others, to be sought for in the Posean=hnd at. the saing time provided Hor ballot, and to which everything else should is s ;~";_ € ~'r i eavient balliots H'_' :acrificed. -- They did not succeed in fhe ueteclion of Irauduient Daliots., be sacrifice f %*"% 1 had no hesitation in asking the House to' \ getting it, but that was what the). fx'inw\ Ale dikn the amendment. 4 i | at. Then there was f'"'" gthef' sy .\tc'x'n. The debate was continued by Mr. A. F.j on td t s 4 47 o se es witn c edloimes Wood, Dr. Willoughby and Mr. S. White.| L Eie . o tartio papinnniatenep onl y tdoy c Mr, 'Meredith followed briefly, defending | ffhe lack of absolife '\m".llc) hp d.l.m)'u ,t:'; the Opposition for having changed from in regard to it; but, on the u.x.lf.r :A ~,.. its pesition of twonty years aso, a rfhar;:c'.l the system was one which permitted the 116 'sam. Achich the Atltarney--General wak detection of fraudulent ballots, persona-- ;_1',_.;;\.'4"""."._'.m;: ACross. the House. The' * fton, Ane stufting:. of, bullot [boxes, OLC: | secret ballot. he said, was refused by thel These were matters of p;qmc. l:npol'tuw,-,' apvernmant Drcause 'of the n»o*ss'.{y it '.'_ y and should be provided for in the ballot was under of securing the votes of a cer-- t uot. 'These evils did not éxist in the '()u» | tain class of elp.:-wrshx ) keep it in power. | tario elections, but they I)re}'uiled wher-- ' Hon. Mt. Hoss followed. _ He pointed'out ' ever the other system was in vogue, mj.i | that since cthe baliot was introduced there | raturning officers were cccasionally I.L)u.z.d fiadibeen fivc eencral elections and numer . conniving at them. It had been pn.\",u! ous b,\'«?w-l('ctijns, some 500 elections in all, beyond doubt that the other system was j ard yet'hcen. gentlemen opposite had not' not absolutely secret. Both S:"'smm.q.h.:f'l t been able to secure a single concrete in--| been very fully discussed in the lrfn["?h | stance of the detection of a vote under| House of Commons, and _ in th\.. }'.r\l.l:"h ! The aAyEtem;, or any. instance of fradd in press and mageazines, "'":',"'m th'~: 'I)"Nl',l; | conncection with it. Mr. Ross pointed out| system was adopted thore. The system 'u.«».r I to Dr. Willoughby that in spite of his| in Ontario had been . adopted f because | speech against the existing ballot, he must, | while it afforded partial secrecy '_t afford-- | nevertheless, believe the ballot was 99('-,; | ed facilities for the detection of fraud. It ir«.'t. since in his own riding of East Nor--| a would be unfortunate if this were pre-- |\ thumberland, according to evidence given | vented,. Mr. Whitney had said bribery funder cath, a spy glass had to be used t and personation could be proved and pun-- | from a window opposite the polling booth t# ished without these facilities : but he | to see that the voters who had been brib-- | averlooked the important bearing these i(-«l cast their votes the right way. (Laugh-- votes had on the election itself, and h({\v ter.) Surely a ballot in which it required | [N % impossible it was, except under the pre-- I:' spy--glass to use in this way mus: Ds ad.| sent system, to detect the extent to whiLjh I | mitted to be a secret one. Mr. Ross com-- | fraud had prevailed where it was .k"(')" n | pared the two systems in detail, and ar-- | ic exist. 1t was important ('er't:'unls. ]EU !g-nw] that the Ontario system possessed ) & punish the personator, but it was also | numerous advantages over that prevailing p 'most important to see that th«' Im Dominian electlons. , c will of the people was not thwurtetl by Mr. McKechnie and Mr. Claney f(,',]n"._l' $9. M !> fraud. As to the system advocated b)v t'h" jm], speaking respectively against and for | Opposition it did not sccure :;f,wruc.\r '{} | the amendment. The division was then; 'g f any imeans. The deputy returning "'t'"""'": | taken, resulting in a majority against the w / P# eould, by making a mark on 'h""' b'""" | amendment and for the CGovernment of | o NY paper, as it was rctm_'m_-d ',0 ni:n to. e | 93. the figures being, 30 for the i meng: & R -Ar: deposited, identify it with 1hf.- p.eu'son '_Ot: ' ment and 53 against. 4 * To $ ing, and enable him to .leh_ which 'ga} The House was fairly full and 'dividea t 1{ that person voted. Again, it had bcer': A on Siralgnt pariy uinew, + divide Bs . proved that in soime cases the returning Messrs. McNaughton and McCaltom the | | | t '.; Te builor i the reserse Site of ariich the Patrons of Industry and P.P.A. représen-- '5 N the baillot on the reverse side / i Eue | !mti\'es. respectively, supported the Gov.|| § eS vote would be marked, arnd when the s ermment, and Mr. G. Campbell, the Eg{,';" ;. '.'l § A ~. S i y ' OR si