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C . <UMKkkm+ - LA 4* ~eaaa m t 4 e y was o 7 M in en C Cet s# ' A however, now given.w was entitled as pa Do mt Ne avaem it | 19. e population 6 _ We y should be and T intin n Scheme ittabs dl!fi'lct.., as fully represented in the Le; ure as | tence. * was without do. E the population of other parts of the Pro--| The Attorney--General said he 5 & vinoe. On the last revised assessment roll# intend discussing the whol A not z ftor Toronto thoere were 43,00 voters re-- length. Mé® Meredith }?l' ole subject ut t l hile in the eight electoral dis--| * # mself had beon | gistered, w $ brief, realizing the undesirability of ..' / | tricts represented by the members of the| But he E made gom i this. | JP _ | Government there were only 53,000 votes. side undh&~ o on O comarks on ong if Under the new scheme the eight districts Should .'a aor :'l:gp:tl:he?%itd:om:thu' .':\ in question woulid" have ten representa-- ?fi side. As 1y, ||® tives, while the 43,000 voters of 'Torontc x';';fg: mlld':' l:na'ear;smlhe \}va.s not be, ': _ would have but four representatives. In charge of his dutles gere el'E n the dig.||' G the division of the city into four constitu-- ht "UREG ~stronger l. ver;y Ressiqn I encles the Government had simply striven sald & J1anguag*, _ ang | R more offensive things. He cal ¥ ke such a partition as would be of the Government thieves and bur: i ? dvantage to themselves. It would have in CiScussing" thys meu:-:'l:n- ]"l- ;l(u,.:lm«,, E | en impossible to devise a scheme better | his mind in such & Sthte ° th: '! l"" #ot t suited to do this. Neither the present | Attormey ~Generai» «i.itl .n.'»t (luulh'l hpl ""'-. municipal divisions nor the old ward lines Mr. Meredith believed all he « H" s Ap had been adhered to. Mr. Clarke com-- House.. In 'that case ,'h,"vm,',""i""" "'v"' plained also of the disproportion of popu-- must be in a most I;.n'u-mn)n- 'n to .-"'~IH & lation in the constituencles. South To-- hon. gentlemain must need I.H\:I,, 1',1 a'}. | ronto would have 10,000 voters and cast Mr, Meredith was frequently & ;u.';l n "(fl}ii Toronto 9,000. Why this liiSDI'Ul"'l'"""-_ it one who might be called on .rL Mkl-' '»-.l-{ not, as he had said, to endeavor to give| in the affairs @f the Dominion He '\;'l'l' the Government an advantage, and secure in every respect a © :zsrl\';x!:.\"- 16.-.'1.'.',-" gt least one seat for its supporters. Nr. Me was tremendously indigznant about the | Clarke suggested what he thought would way in which the (,'l'nlr'lilll\'nwr'\"h id l\'l~l have been better divisions for the city, divided. Of course the ('m:wrv'utilwv; }\ ".;' and concluded by remarking that he was always been peftfectivy fair in fesiirk -..i'v,:'\:. confldent the four city -- constituencies ions. Why, it was well known that the would --return four opponeuts of the Gov-- conduct of the Conservative Government ernment vnless the registration bill pre-- | in their flyision -- of corstituencies \\;..; vehted the manhood suffrage voters from so absolutely appalling that numbers 0. registering. their own supporters forscok them in the Hon. Mr. Gibson said Mr. Clarke's con-- elections that followed, and they lost in elvuding observations were an answer to this way much of the advantage they had the rest of his speech. Certainly hon. expected to reap. Mr. Meredith \'nln.]'luh)- gentlemen opposite ought to be satisfied ed that Toronto was urder--represented in If the arrangement of the divisions was getting the four members proposed by th one that enabled them to return four Con-- hill. How many members did the City of servatives,. .So far as observations in the Toronto get in the Dominion Parkament ? press were concerned, he thought he Mr. Clarke objected that it was not the ecould safely say that the arrangement of same constituency in the Dominion. the «divisions had received gensral con The Attorney--General said it was prace sent. To show how dilficult it was to find tically and substantially the same, and $ fault with the h.l!, he might mention that | that this objection was mere quibbling. while Mr. Clarke claimea the qdivisions | Toronto was as well treated in Provincial were so arranged as to secur> one seat representation as in Dominion representa-- for the Government, yet The lKmpire, in tion. The Government did not preterd to discussing the measure, had said the give To--onto representatives in proportion Covernment was giving West Toronto a 10 its population There were stron: portion of North or South To-- reagons against sitch a course by any Gov-- ronto with A. view 10 steal-- ernment in dealing with the represent»-- Ing West Toronto. Looking at the tion of a large city with its great ad-- division of the constituencies generally, vantages, Such a city had far greatet he thought it would be difficult to con-- advantages in proportion to its population vince an independent and reasonable on-- than any other section of the country. looker that it was not a fair one. 1t was Such reasons were considered by all Gov. thought the division as at present was ernments suflicient to make some difference better than to have them all running in determining the representation of large north and south. South Toronto, it was cities, and had been considered sufficient in true, had & larger population than the the present case. Mr. Meredith complain-- other divisions, but it was in the nature ed b ise Ottawa is not dividegG in get-- of things the only division that would not ting an increased representation Ob WA be likely to grow, and that could not was not divided under the Dominion ar-- increase itself by annexation of surround-- rangement by which it got two members, Ing territory. It might improve in i and it was not proposed t 10-- so in Pro-- business senge, but, instead of its popu-- incial elections. It was extraordinary lation increasing, it was more likely that to find the hon. genileman using such its residents would move more and more strong language here over things that were [ | into the outskirts in the course of the done precisely as his friends at Ottawa next few years. Jn the other hund, the did them. Hamilton and Ottawa were got-- other divisions were increasing rapidly in tingy two members each because each of pepulation \Mr. Gibson concluded by re-- th n has a largor population than any marking that the Island, which had not other place returning one member. The | teen mentioned previously, would be con-- Dominion Government had given them two nected with East 'Toronto. members each when they had a smaller Mr. Meredith said that the bill should population than now. 'The Ontario Go% ' have been brought in earlier in the ses-- ernment in its former changes of c nsti-- i sion, so as to ensure a fuller discussion. tuencies had taken care to keep within| The Government was behaving like a county lines, a principle that everyb dy thief, who is in the grasp of the con-- approved of If a Government or party j stable, who hands out, the stolen goods, in~ arrenging constituencies, working in and then says, " Nee how honest I am! this way, found itself confronted by two The Government had stolen a seat in To-- arrangements, which, party consideration ronto, had kept it for eight years, and | apart, were equally good, he did not ses * were now, 'n fear of the countryv. relin-- why the Government should not select that quishing the stolen property. He )uldl arrangement which appeared to be most | that the Government had not be en free in its favor. 'Th Government had not from gerrymander, and he instanced the donme so always, but he knew of no reason dispositions made of Huron, Cornw ill, why it should not have done so. 'The Gov® Leeds, Duiflerin and other counties, which, ernment had not cnly confined itse!! in} he said, showed that the Government had this way. but had also ecnducted its opor--] made unfair arrangements. lie . cited ations on the principle of representation | ¢ | statistics to show that before the elec-- by population. He was confident that an N tion of Mr. MeNaughton, cighteon Liberal indifferent tribunal, knowing notbing o% /34 members represented 238% voters each, the politics of the different sections, and ,| | while six Conservatives represonted 6.431 looking at the character of the divisions 1 voters each It was unfair that a Gov ord the numbers of the population, would | I ernment supported by a majority in the pronounce it perfectly fair and impartial. whole country of from 3,0%0 to 10,000 should As to the minority system, it was m have two--thirds of the members of the intendad that it should be a permanent 1 House. This was a scandalous state of arrangement. It was tried in the nature | affairs, and a remedy should be found. of an experiment, and if it had been found ;' A gentleman high in the contidence of desirable to retain it for Toronto it would t the Government had at one time hbeen in have been necessary to extend it to other t favor of a plan of grouping constituencies places, As to the cumulative and adopting the system of cumulative system, ho was not sure the voting. Whether that was a good scheme rystem mis@sht not have been applied in th« ' | or not, something should be done to make present bill but for the fact that the Gov-- | the representation in the House of the ernment had promised they would revort| § | political parties on a par with their pro-- to the old system. But for this and some | portion in the country. Coming to par-- other minor reasons he was not sure they | h ticulars, Mr. Meredith asked why i; was would not have adopted the cumulative '4 that Hamilton, with 16,000 inhabitants, system for Toronto in view of the repre--| | should have two members, and Ottawa, sentations made regarding it by the labor-- I | with even fewer inhabitants, should also ing classes. There was much to be said iR | | have two, while Toronto, with 1753,00 in-- in favor both of the minority system of § | habitants, has but four members, or one reviesentation and the cumulative system | | for, every 40,000. As regards Ottawa, Mr. of voting. 'The present bill had been fay--| ' | Meredith found fault with the absence of orably received. 'The Conservatives ap ; a division of the city, and the taking in peared satisfied with it. 'The Government|] orA Carleton County ; these showed, he might have got greater advantage out of| said, that the (i(n'crnmmn did so in or-- it b.\- cutting the city up. But they had 2;3 to get the two members for Ottawa not doue this. Thers were no cro« ked to lessen the Conservative majority | lines. He ventured to say in conclusion ) [