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Not Barking Out. PHUqu nu 1,.v..._V_,, "It looks," said Mr. MacKay. hold- ing; up a plan. "like two Plevalors placed one on the top ot the other. and a side, blown out of each. I takd the old riding, and I know nothing in prac- tical politics which Is more compact, while the new riding is this Jumbled, zigzag attair." - - -as-,r.-_rr5tof " "no Hon. A. sidn down. Dealing with 13rockville, Mr. Mac- Hoy said that the riding had not been touched since 1885. "I hold no brief for the old Government." . l .. . _ Prmnier Whitney-You are prepared to back out. '"". ' . Mr. Mackay-l am not hacking out. I am prepared to change. my Opinion when my opinion ot yesterday is wrong. In order to show the Premier thatois opinion is wrong -r want to my that of what he lately-called-a scaritied reminiscence of what a dc- ccnt riding should Ire, if the opinion of a sane, intelligent man'were asked. he would say that the present riding is more compact. than the preposed one. The present riding of Brockville, Mr. MacKay said, had a population of 13.322 and Leeds 19.254. a dln'ercnce of only 952. With such a small (Inference some good reason should he given why the proposed unshapeiy riding should be prodeedc. .. " , H "I would like." proceeded Mr. Mam Kay, "the people of Ontario to perceive exactly what this means. I am willing that tho 11001110 of the Province should judge of tho boast which comes so oftm from tho Premier: 'Honest enough to ho bold and bold enough to he hon- Att Obvious Reason. "I want to ask any honest man," said Mr. MacKay, "any man who pretends to he. honosl. if that is equalizing the constftttonc0e.s ? Why are two munici- palities taken from the smaller and giv- en to the greater ? How can that he honestly detinvd as honestly endeavor- ing to equalize the population ? J'eel was 3 per ("NIL more than 1Tardwell, and now under these proposals it will be 50 JMtt' cent,.. From ghat,which hat-h m-t.in so far ai, population is concerned. is taken about half that it hath. The reason is obvious. Right in the from row on this side of the House sits Mr. John Smith, the only mamrlt is sup- posed. who can hold Peel. This change turns over 130 Conservative votes, the L/h/ie-rx' will fall on him. and that tho reason of the alteratipn: --- --. Not An Honest. Attempt. "Lt-t us see." said Mr, Mat-Kay. "if this hill is an honest attempt to do what tho Pturmier promised. whether an honest .attempt hua boon made to carry out the professions he made when in' trodm'ing it. I haw here tlte I'm-mink statement with pefetuuttce to the? prin- cipltus whieh were to he followed. quot; ml in 'l'hn Globe. " paper. by the. way, which lie is fond of quoting from. and Said that ho is willing to accept its statvmvnts in any 1iiscutusiou. Ho th-n said. on March 18 : "It is proposed that ('(Hlllh' boundaritus shall be followed so {anus possible. and it is desired that tlwro should be an equalization of the population of the diftorent ridings.' .. 1'r-uling. Mr. MacKay said that Pomo- ot tho boundary lines romainod as tlir-y wore in Ins, and the mason for thw alterution which was now pryposed. "as uln'ious. Lot tho mnstituencjos or I'm-l and ("ardwoll he suousiderod. The): vA't'tu tnonstituencirss whore the, 'vounty lumnclarios were not Ponsldored. la the IMI wusus Par-dwell had a population of 18.326. Take off Allandale, which had g'om- out by virtue of a special art and Ire-nu added in Simone. leaving It.- 4712. Tho population of Peel was F,032, or 53.9 more than ("ardwelL from which the townships of Albion and Bolton had' noon removed. and by the bill placed in" tlttnit. own county. County boundaries were observed there. but not in other cases. What was the result ? Taking" off Albion. with 2.741. and Bolton. "With TO?.. from Caldwell. and a constituency was' left with' a population-ol' only 14,- O.?p). while Peel had 21,475. T ' ' , J. Mathetton-That is up- is "It it is logical." he said. "to give To- ronto eight members. give the city right constituencies. I want to know what i the men of the towns and townships {1"111! Say to this. They will have one 3 vote and ahe representative, while the Iv Tovonto'ole"ctor will have two votes and .. two_represe.ntatives." . I The object of "this wondeyful piece i of political tltimble-rigging"' was plain. , Nobody who was not ci.uptitiod by the I gooq aid Conservative party was to ', tiavtr,ay'xotilie. There was to be no opportunity for minority representa- tion ', and'he would' like to know what ttttrluabo.r member thought of that. It it were destrysblfr," he ccmtended. that Toronto should have eight mem- bers. it would be my to divide the city into eight; constituencies, although he contended no change was 12,',e,"i"A7,i Situated as Toronto/was, the people ad no dittlcuity in making :their wishes known to the Government. He dared '; to say that'no deputatioginad been re- mind from. the City Co Ineit or Board l, at Trade ,glLiptttincreis.qed represen-, "The Labor men were getting out a -c'anctidate; thcte wus an independent movement in the Conservative party, and so a club had to be used. and it styuck Labor on th) head," he added thi'ch way you now It. It Is. not l shapely. IJ'knmlizlng Population. ' Proceeding. he said that the Legis- t lauxre had been told that the redistri- 'hutirm was necessary in order to lmualizo the population of constituen- gc-ies. He had shown in reference to i Pool and Pal-dwell that there was only , aditteutneoof'5.59.aud between Brock- l ville and Leeds something like a thous- laud. Now lot them take the other .sido of the picture. 'I'mmbton Wcst 'lmd a population of PA,808, Lambton I Bust 22,470. a, diffVntnce of about "if." he said. "any honest attempt war!- henig made to equalize the Donn. lution of thesn constituencies would you not reduce the. largest ? I find, however. notwithstanding the boast that this hill is for the equalization of pdpulution. that East Middlcsex. with 26.825. or more than 4.000 more than the next, is left. alone. and a little thimbie- rigging done with the two smaller con- stituencies to bring about certain re- suits and make them safe Conserva- tive seats." (Opposition cheers.) Passng on. Mr. MacKay said that in rmt'eronce to the Hurons tho remark had been made that there was "nothing like them in the heavens above. the earth 'héiwutl'). _or the waters under the itrth"; but the proposal in regard to Iortmto was the, most indefensible in the bill. _ _ The Case ot Toronto. in higher ideal. and when he is asked ', to aim up a township. stands up and , mm. 'Whut "o have we'll hold.' c, _ Hon. A. J. Matheson-The hon. gen- I tit-man is only 6,000 out in his figures. l, My. MaoKay~I givo the figures as who)? WPt'P given me from the census j of 1901. j Mr. Mathruson explained that Smith's 'Faiis had been placed in South Lan- gark for Dominion purposes since,» tho '. last Cten.cur. Making Safe titsats. Mr. Mackay. proceeding. pointed out that North Hastings had a population of 34.088, Wtsst Hastings. 17.772, a differ- '"ttte of 6.216: Wellington South 21,162. East Wellington 17,192, a difference of 3.907. but T no change had been made. Let them take the vase- of the Middle- svxes. all within county boundaries, and where "rtuttlization of population could have boen the only reasonable excuse for changr. East Middlesex. according to the census of 1901. had a population of 21.625; West, 18.080. and North. 16 41?. "WW. "And." said the Opposition loader.' "may are Ictt as they are by this mmsuro. nhich I am not "Sing too strong language in calling hollow and h.rpoevltiol," Proceeding, Mr. Mae. 381: Ianintt-d put that in the popula- owl-p of we) Keats there was a differ- Elgiru' "St-96, between East and West Smith 'i.'ilit- between Ontario North and "It is 0&1", Ily! Yr! no change made. who?» ly "hon there is a difference Dec-Mug. a thousand that change is, luv this- .. rife' we Pl know how hol- is "Til- talh about it being necessary it: t in? 1\rorth_ Oxford. with 26,644, 5.313." yr/yy with 22,760. a difference (33.88,. and there is no change; takes .Lurth Berth. with 29,253. and South .Ivi'th with 20,C'0, a difference of S635 Ind. there is no change; but get J'ohit Fimith's constituency, whore the Tory party was defeated. and it js neces. wry to make u, change. Ive might as not] have been told the plain facts and ,tyr. truth. North Lanark has a popu- PH/e of 18,008, South Lanark 15.428. " triftVrtstuue of 2.580. but no change is 1:13:10. The Provincial Treasurer has acRay--/ -firuuom it, it is: not ', Pimroeding, he referred to the special '. 1-tedistribution Committee, of which he F was a, member. It reminded him of itha't song, "Come. into my parlor said ithe spider to the tty." He submitted f that it was as: fair to change fltty or sixty tidings as it was to change titteett or so on the census of 1901, It was not fair to change a few which, he said, the Government had culled to suit their purposos. The Ross Administration and that of Premier Hardy always had to! _tlght for their majorities. which were! small. "They never were cowards' l, enough to go out and butcher up this'. ", country," he added. 'The Real Result. Ho reviewod the changes in Leeds, Brockvillo. Hastings, West Northum- herland and West Pettrrboro', and add- ed that the Government were "taking little drafts here and, there 40 make themselves safe for next election." He supposed that next session they would have to speak of the members from Toronto as "Label A," Dar he even sug- gested putting bells on them. Passing reference was made by Mr. Clarke to Middlesex, Huron and Essex, and, he said he did not think the people wOuld l "I love an honest man," he said. "I ltllii'ik he is the noblest work of God. A thing I don't like is a man who is ( honest two-thirds of the time, but one- ithird of the _ time goes wrong. and then swears' he is honest. This is one of the weaknesses of the Premier of this House and this Province. I my this in all seriousness. because he, is in the habit of saying he is honest." Continuing. he drew attention to the sitting members for Toronto. The member for West Toronto was Speak- er. the member for South Toronto was Attorney-General, the member for North Toronto was a Hydro-trteetrie Commissioner, and the member for East Toronto was Minister of Edu.. cation. "The Premier cannot show Ate," said Mr. Clarke, "one single gain to the Lib- eral party of Ontario in all the changes that ho has made in this Province. I wish to say, on the other hand, that he has secured and made safe from eight to twelve ridings iv Ms own behalf. when we had possessed them or had a better chance than he had of carrying them." . Some, Plain Talk. __ ___- --..-..-...- v.0 nun lx.p|(" sentation according to population." There was- no Mason, he claimed. why Toronto shon-mot be represented in both Federal and Provincial Houses according td population. It Toronto "'03". given six, members, which tho Liberal loudor had favored. said Mr. McNaught. every man would only he givrn about one-third of a vote ac- cording to representation to popula- tion. Ho lmliovod that for the last twvuty yours the dice had boon load- od against the Conservative side of the House. The Honesty Habit. In conclusion Mr. MacKay said that everything under this bill had been done to make the tight an unfair ono And to make it lop-sided. At present the Conservatives had a majority of 4t. but a'c-cordirig to the massed vote there was onty a majority of ten. Defence of Toronto. Mr. McNaught'thought it would be conceded by (wiry fair-minded man that. it was-the intention of the Gov- ernmcnt td give the Province a square deai.- The Pity of Toronto at the 19recint time had a population of over 309.000. and he reminded the House that an old Liberal cry was "repro- scutation according to population." There was- no Wagon, he claimed. why Mr. Sam Clarke (Northumberland) "as rather surprised that the mem- ber for North Toronto could not give more reasons why the Premier and the Government worn right. The Premier had said that the Lib- eral members of the committce had not said anything during the first two meetings, but Mr. Clarke intimated to the-House that there was perfect unan- imity on the Government side of the House. in the committee Mr. Clarke said!» Premier was '9yoss. of the Job." The Ilepai members of the committee. he said. should have had from a week 10 two weeks to consider these changes. while tho Government had perhaps a year to think over them. "lnmgine four Toronto members hav- ing the tintyst positions and the great- est honors," he said. "What is the bal- ance of the Province getting I' Surely the balance of this Province is entitled to something as well as the city of Tor- onto." (Cheers.) "Taking what docs not belong to you, that is stealing in plain English," was another applauded observation of Mr. Clarke. 1".et't'e.Ht BFBAb tutu. Hie applicaumL Cline from the party, and that even in its ranks would be found many who on- Jected to "this fall fair faking and pea- under-a-shen' rigging." that the