The Ontario Scrapbook Hansard

Ontario Scrapbook Hansard, 7 Apr 1909, p. 1

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On the bill to amend the railway act, in order that cities of over 50,000 population might establis'h Sunday strect car services, coming up for its second reading, the Premier intro-- duced a new clause providing that a sufficient notice should be given be-- fore the taking of a vote. This, he explained, was to prevent any snap verdict being obtained. Another new tlause provided that no street railway employee should work on two suc-- ceeding Sundays. Hon. A. G. MacKay pointed out that perhaps the population basis was not the best one upon which to settle this question. Smaller towns might be so+ geographically situated as to make a Bunday car service a great conveni-- ence. He thought that the Govern-- ment should take the whole of the responsibility in regard to this matter aLsaying where Sunday cars shou]dl The Clerk's declaration of the vote. 21 to 73, a Government majority of 52, was received with prolonged Liber. al cheering. The nominal Gowxern-- ment majority is sixty--seven. '"Any more recruits:?" said the Liberal leader, laughingly. The vyote was taken at 11 o'clock on the amend-- ment. an amendment to the amend-- ment by Mr. Studholme, advocating the building of the road hy the Pro-- vince, getting no seconder, and being declared out of order. Sunday Car Question. The vote was otherwise along striet party lines. When Mr. Hugh Clarke voted with the Government he was greeted with ironical Opposition laughter, as the Bruce man was one of Mr. Bowyer's licutenants last ses-- sion. Mr. D. J. McDougal® (East Ottawa) was the only Opposition absentse. The Conservative ab-- sentees were : Hon. Adam Beck, Hon. J. S$. Hendrie, and Messrs. Carrick (Port Arthur), Donovan (Brockville), Gamey (Manitoulin). Hearst (Sault Ste. Marie), Innes (Norfolk). Mahaffv (Muskoka), Nickle (Kingston) and Gregg (Algoma). There -- were no pairs. a& six--months' hoist to the proposed land grant in the first division of the new Legislature last night. He rose at the conclusion of the recording of the Opposition vote, and declared himself. amid Liberal applause. After a moment's pause Mr. G. W. Sulman, his Conservative colleague from the western riding, rose and joined him, while the Liberals continued to pound their desks. Mr. Allan Studhoime, the Hamilton Labor man, also voted with the Opposition. Mr. Philip H. Bowyer, Conservative member for East Kont, who led the opposition of the five Government members of the Legislature to the Canadian Northern Railway subsidy at the last session, voted with the Liberal leader's amendment to give Nominal Majority of Nearly Seven-- ty Reduced to Fifty--two on First Division--Vigorous _ Debate -- Con-- cluded Last Night--Liiberal Lead-- er's spirited Address, THE GRANT TO THE C.N.R. Two Conservatives and Labor Man With Opposition. . Liberals Score on First Division of the Session. YEDNESDAY, APRIL 7, VOTED ABAINST THE GOVERNMENT, | _ The Premier made a lengthy |attack on the Grand Trunk Paci-- | fic agreement with the Dominion | 'Government, saying that every-- 'thing was being done by the |country except the possible pay-- !ment of an excess in the cost of con.-- [struction on the prairie section. It | was true that the G. T. P. would pass !through a corner of the clay belt, and Inaturally they would be glad to re-- ceive any benefit from it, but it di rot supply the needs of the country Liberal Leadoer's Motion. oppostite to aid to a speculative rail-- \ way enternrise." Proceeding, > the !Pre'mier contrasted _ the present pro-- ipnsal with what the Dominion Gov-- 'ernment -- had done in regard to the \Grand Trunk -- Pacific, the expendi-- [ture on which, he claimed, was in measurable distance of three hundred |millions of dollars. "Put that." he l'said, "alongside this simule business transaction of ours, by which our pro-- |perty is given a value which it other-- wise never would have had, and by [which our settlers are insurced fair |play and reasonable terms." [ Attacked Grand Trunk Pacific, road as laid down on the map wa's through very difficult country, sixty miles moderately easy, and 200 miles through country of a character which would mean that the cost of con-- struction would be away below the average. It was important that they should know the value of that agri-- cultural land. They were told that the price and conditions of its sale would be fixed, and onee having been fixed could not be changed. That was an advantage. for one object of the The Government had driven a hard bargain with the company after re-- lfnsing: them a cash subsidy. A fur-- \ther amendment to the hbill as it was [first presented was that to give the |settlers the right to cut and use all \timber except that reserved for the \Crown. It was necessary, he explain-- jed, that the Government. should do |something to open up the clay belt in }ordm' to provide opportunities for the |immigration which the Dominion Gov-- 'ernment was sending into the country,. land -- therefore they had approached (the company with this offer, which,he considered, was in the interests of the :le'im-v. *"This," he declared,"is not laid to the railway, but an attempt fwhi(-h every _ reasonable man would make to develop and exploit the pro-- 'perty of the people. It is exactly the 'opposite to aid to a speculative rail-- hat it was proposed to give away. He thoughnt it was unfortunate that the company had not only heen refused a cash grant, but a land sub-- sidy also. Thisnew road. would form a connecting link between the company's eastern and. western sys-- tems, with the intention of making a transcontinental system. It would be built in any event, and. therefore, the Province was put in the position that it was not obliged to-- assist cither with cash or land. Still the Premier would have dons well to give the House more full information as to what it was proposed to give away, and as to what exactly those two mil-- lion acres meant in dollars and cents. Taking the report of the surveyors and valuators who went out in 1900, they found that 140 miles of the road as laid down on the map wa's run or else allow the people to decide it. The Canadian Northern Grant. (On the second reading of the bill granting aid to the Canadian North-- ern Railway the 'Premier, after re-- peating the main features of the bill, drew attention to a proposed amend-- ment providing that once the value of any section of land granted to the company had been fixed it could not be changed by any subsequent order in council. Many of the members of the House would recollect what had happened in connection with the Canada Company. The object of this bill was to pnrevent any such similar condition of monopoly arising. It would also be manifestly unfair to the company after once the value of the land and the terms on which it could be sold had been fixed, they should be changed. A HMHard Bargain. Hon. A. G. MacKay, in moving that the bill should be given a six months' hoist, said that he thought it would have been more to the point if the Premier, instead of going in-- to a lengthy discussion of the Grand Trunk Pacific, with which the House had nothing to do, given them some more information as to exactly he railway, but an attempt very -- reasonable man would develop and exploit the pro-- the people. It is exactly the to aid to a speculative rail-- hbad approached offer, which,he interests of the Mr. R. R. Gamey (Manitoulin) created Government enthusiasm by comparing the terms of the Ross Gov-- ernment grant to the Grand Trunk Pacific and the present grant to the Mr. S. Clarke (Northumberiand), in seconding the motion, pointed out that the Government if they simply desired to develop the clay belt could have done so by extending the pres-- ent Government road. The Premier had said that the land had no value. It was not so very long ago that the same thing was said of land in the Northwest, where in ten years values had increased from a dollar an acre to ten, twenty, and thirty dollars. The Canadian Northern Railway seemed to have the faculty of getting what they wanted from Provincial Govern-- ments. *"The C. N. R.," he said, "practically own the Manitoba Gov-- ernment, and 1 speak from reason-- able knowledge. The Manitoba Gov-- ernment are giving them everything, and I regret to say that the infec-- tion is getting into Saskatchewan and Alberta.'"' Proceeding, Mr. Clarke said: '"When Mackenzie & Mann go to London to float their bonds 1 would like to see what value they will place on the timber." Passing on, he said that he did not think that the Premier was comrortable with the proposi-- tion. "I used to think that he was a big man, but when he fell into the ggnds's' of William Mackenzie, he was ne. * Only as recently as the ith of Sep-- tember last the Premier had assured a deputation of farmers that under no circumstances in future would a land grant be made to a railway company. '"'That," said the speaker, '"was a definite pledge, and it struck me that the Premier would have been better employed, instead of attacking the Grand Trunk Pacific, If he had explained the reason for this depart-- ure from his policy." From every point of view he thought that the bil1l was to be condemned, and there-- fore moved that it should be given a six months' hoist. Extend Government Road. The Premier's Pledge. 461 ; Carleton, 5635.966 ; Russell, 250,-- 667 ; Prescoft, 291,604, or a>~ total of 2,150,123., It meant that the Gov-- ernment woere giving away an acre-- age ncéarly equal to that of those seven eastern counties. The acreage of Durham, Ontario, York, Peel, and Halton counties was but slightly less than the proposed _ grant. Huron, Perth, and he was taking contiguous counties, Oxford and Norfolk, had 2,186,967 acres, or only a little more than the grant. Proceceding, Mr. MacKay said that. according to the map, there would only be 225 miles of road in the clay beit. But when the builders went to finance that road those who fin-- anced it would want to know some-- thing of the value of the timber on the land. The report of the explor-- ers showed that the timber ran from thirty to sixty cords to the acre. Put-- ting it even at the very low average of tweonty cords to the acre, and tak-- ing the price at which they had been selling timber, the timber would be worth $8 an acre, the land $5, mak-- ing $13 in all, which would be equivalent to $52,000 a mile. If the report was at all accurate, then that estimate was a very low one. some Comparative Figures, It was easy to say that the land was of no value because it was in-- accessible, but they had to-- realize what its value would be in order to appreciate what the Government woere prepared to give away. Let them also appreciate what the grant meant in area alone. The acreage of Glen-- garry was '287,817%; 'Stormont," 247,-- 151}; Dundas, 237,057; Grenville, 272,. 461 ; Carleton, 5635.966 ; Russell, 250,-- 667 ; Prescoft, 291,604, or a>~ total of 2.150.123. It meant that the (inv. "What does the reservation of white pine mean," asked the Icader of the Opposition, "when on that land there is no white pine? 'The Crown practically convey to the com-- pany everything that is along the route. The people of Ontario will not be misied by the statement that the white pine is reserved and the minerals are reserved; for where the pine is reserved there is none, and there are no minecrsls in the clay belt." grant was to give the company an asset on which it conld raise money in order to finance the road. They found from the report which he had mentioned that 75 per cent. of the land was choice land. and that it was heavily timbered with spruce. No Pine to Reserve.

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