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Abrogating Peoplo's Rights. Asked by Mr. McCrea to put his finger on the vicious principle in the bill, Mayor Coppley retorted that it proposed to take away the rights of the people with regard to deciding "The municipalities," he said, "should have the right to handle these things without interference from the Railway Board." Mayor Coppley of Hamilton put in vigorous opposition on behalf of his municipality, condemning the McCrea Bill as "vicious in the ex-- treme.'" Hamilton, he said, was satisfied with existing conditions. It had a satisfactory agreement with its electric railway company' for purchase, through arbitra-- tion, at the end of the franchise. . Ald. Harley of London told the committee that the representatives of his municipality had gone on re-- cord unanimously as opposing the principle of the McCrea Bill, '"Their opinion,'" he said, "is opposed to taking away the powers of the mu-- nicipalities. I do not know ta)r.t_ the city of London objects to rais-- ing of fares, but we dao object to not having & say in the matter when the fares are raised." _ Ald. Wilson of London also took part in the discussion. _ _ . [ Mayor Church, speaking for To-- ronto, declared that the bill sound-- ed the death--knell for public own-- ership. Such a course as tearing up contracts, such as was proposed, he said, had never been followed in any British country. In his opinion the Legislature had not the power to enact the legislation under discus-- gion. During his argument in favor of his bill Mr. McCrea declared that it was a question whether Toronto could make its improvements and re-- organization when it took over the Toronto Street Railway Company under the present law of a five-- cent fare unless the Railway Board is permitted to approve of rates. Mayor Church's Opposition. _Bir Adam--I am a member of the commission. Mr. McCrea--Well, to all intents and purposes, Sir Adam. It is under your advisory control, and you are a member of the board. On another occasion Mr. McCrea cited the London & Port Stanley road as charging more than the fare set out in the law which it was proposed to amend. Said Sir Adam: '"'The London & Port Stanley is not under the Hydro--electric. It belongs to the city of London, and it is op-- erated entirely by the city itself." Mr. McCrea--There may be a reas-- on for that. London & Port Stanley Road. Mr. -- McCrea--Technically and legally that may be so, but every-- body knows that the Hydro is about to take over the line. There is a bill in the Legislature at this minute to bring this about. -- . Sir Adam--I am informed within the last 24 hours that the bill has been withdrawn. Sir Adam--Mr. Chairman, the Hydro--electric has nothing to do with the city of Peterboro' line. Mr. McCrea declared that the min-- ute any privately--owned railway tried to charge more than the Hydro the big stick was held up. "Peter-- boro'," he said, '"is charging seven cents on Sundays, and heroe the line is under the control of the Hydro. Anybody can step in and upset this rate unless the first section of this bill is passed." -- ie j Sir Adam Beck took part in the controversies 'briefly on occasion, once to correct Mr. McCrea's con-- ception of the situation with regard to the Peterboro' Railway, which Mr. McCrea instanced as having in-- creased rates. "You can't bluff me like that, Sir Adam," Mr. McCrea exclaimed, when the correction Proceeding, he ifnsisted that it was an effort to split the opposing forces. If it was unfair to one municipality it was unfair to them all. "Do not try to ease your con-- sciences and salve the thing up," he said. "Say, I will either enact it in whole or oppose it in whole.'" Sir Adam Interposes. The Government was giving this agreement careful consideration, but the Premier said he thought the agreement cumbersoms and compli-- cated. If the agreement was satis-- factory to the Government a bill would be brought in. Mr. Drury said the Government had had no objection to the City of Guelph Railway being operated by the Hydro--Electric Power Com-- mission, but not as part of the rad-- lal scheme. An agreement between the city and the Hydro was voted on in Guelph, but the agreement was cnly now submitted to the Gov-- errmert the Gue!iph Railway situation. He made his statement in answer to & question by C. H. Buckland, \Wel-- lingtou South. The Prime Minister made an ex-- planation to the Legislaturs yester-- day: of the Government's stand on Government Cannot Agree to It Being Considered * Part of System GUELPH RAILWAYT NOT RADIAL LINE Mr. Thompson's motion to --net report the bill carried, the Prime Minister voting for it and the At-- torney--General voting against it. The Attorney--General said the bil1 had been carefully considered and had the approval of the De-- partment of Insurance, but he was not urging its acceptance upon the House. The Premicr said he thought the responsibility conecrning the fate of the bill should rest with the House, not with him. & General Laws in This Regard Coming Down Next Session INSURANCE BILL MEETS DEFEAT T. J. Hannigan enumerated -- the municipalities opposing the bill as Toronto, Hamilton, London, Chat. ham, Peterboro', St. Thomas, Galt m se 9F + Crasccl 4. and Sarnia., Hon. Thomas Crawford suggested the adjournment until Thursday next, stating he believed that the contestants might be able to get to-- gether in the meantime. P O V 3 ---- _ OHP. _ o wwell, / said Mayor Coppley, "something ought to be done about that." Hon. Walter Rollo protested at the cross--floor discussion, stating that Mr. McCrea was taking up the time of the opponents -- of the measure. * their own affairs, Mr, McCrea point-- ed out that, under the existing law, even if the people voted in favor of & necessary increase in fares, that increase could not be. put into effect because the law said that it must not be done. "Well," said Mayor Coppley, '"something ought to be done about that." sc\ Prvs). <{8 v¥ik 7 w