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The Attorney-General agreed with the criticism of the subsec- tion. and it was reversed. The Unionists will now be entitled to copies of portraits. pictures and en- Cravings on paying half the price. Premieres Suggested Oonterenee. lege to the cortttnuintr'Presbyterian Church was introduced by Mr. Brackln. He proposed that the phraseology of the bill referring to Knox be an altered as to give Knox to the continuing Church in the same way as the other colleges were given to the Union Church. Premier Fer- guson objected to the sudden intro- duction of such an involved amend- ment. After a. brief discussion the amendment was lost. Petty Matter of "cull-es. When the House went into com- mittee about 8.30 o'clock, with w. D. Black (Conservative. Addington) in the chair. a sharp controversy broke out almost immediately over the conference suggested to take place yesterday by the Premier in his speech in the House Tuesday night. John A. Currie (Conserva- tive, Southeast Toronto). said he had been told that day that the von- ference was going on in the Attor- ney-General's omee, and that D. L. McCarthy. K.C.. had told him he had been. asked to come up. __ Objoctions to the arrangements for joint occupancy of Knox were raised by Mr. Currie, but were not taken seriously. Stormy opposition was made. by Mr. Brackin to the clause providing for taking the pic- tures off the walls ot Knox and giv- ing them to the Unionists. "It is small. petty, and should not be considered." he said. "All those pictures belong to Knox, and if the others want them let them have copies." "It is pretty small potatoes." he said, and moved that it be struck out. William Finlayson (Conservative. Simcoe), member of the subcc.m- mince. agreed. - - Attorney-General Nickle said that he had been at the Private Bills Committee meeting all morning, and that he had met Mr. Currie when he came from this meeting at 1 o'clock. He had explained to Mr. Currie then, he said. that he had not understood the Prime Minister to say that he desired the subcommittee of nine to resume negotiations. "1 suggested that Col. Currie should get in touch with Mr. Rankin (the sponsor ot the bill) and Mr. Macdiarmid (who in- troduced the anti-Unionist bill), and I understood he left me with that intent." In the afternoon the com- mittee. of nine had met in the At- torney-Generaps omce to select names tor the Church Property Commission, Mr. Nickie said, and also to consider one more amend- ment. Ready for Long Battle. "We understood all day that a confer'ence was in progress," said James A. McCausland 'Conservative, Southwest Toronto). "We were led to believe all day that the people would be induced to get together." He added that he did not want to hold up the bill, "but if it is neces- sary to talk, I can talk." Col. Currie said that Alex. C. Lewis (Conservative. Northeast Toronto) had consulted him, "but we did not want to take this matter out of the hands of the confere'nce." Morrison M. MacBride (Independ- ent, South Brant) deprecated 'any argument. such as was taking place. and Premier. Ferguson said he hoped that the members would be able to approach the matter without any heat or feeling. Then the com- mittee got down to the consideration of the bill. Dougal Carmichael (Progressive, Centre Grey) said that there were certain phrases in the preamble ot the bill to which he objected. The change would affect the whole bill, and he suggested that he discuss these changes at that stage, though the preamble would not be discussed until the last. However. it was de- cided that the hill should be con- sidered clause by clause. \hursAa The Attorney-General explained that the saving clause had been put in at the request of the law officers of the Crown; that if it were not there it any changes were made at Ottawa the Ontario House would have to accept them ynd would have Coming to Section 2. Subsection I, the intervening sections being carried without discussion, Mr. Cur- rie moved that the words added hy the subcommittee respecting the Act of Incorporation passed at Ottawa. "as it was aaented to on July 19, 1924," he struck out. _ As it stood, without his amendment if any change were made at Ottawa in the incorporation bill it would make it impossible for Ontario to follow. no opportunity of passing on them. Mr. Currie accepted the explanation and withdrew his amendment. Position of Non-concurring Churches Property of mesbyteruns. No debate took place then until consideration of Clause g. Mr. Mac- Bride moved an amendment to be added at the end of line 19 ot the section. which section deals with property of non-concurring congre- gations: "In the case of the non- concurring congregations their prop- erty shall stand on and after June IO, 1925. in the same relation to the continuing Presbyterian Church as it did to the Presbyterian Church in Canada before the passing of this act." This amendment was second- ed by Mr. McCausland. Mr. MacBrlde said that. this amendment allowed all those who wanted to go into Union tn go ahead. but it preserved all the rights of the continuing Presbyterian churches. It would stop the everlasting agita- tion these churches would be sub- Ject to, he said. to take another vote. "Lost!" called out a member. "Why do you any lost?" asked Mr. Brackin heatedly. and several members called out, "Carried! Car- Col. Currie, in supporting the amendment. said that there was no provision so far as the non-concur- ring congregations were concerned, that they were not going to be kept in a constant turmoil. It was only fair for the Legislature in determin- ing "what's sauce for the goose to let the gander have the same kind of sauce." Mr. Brackin said that they were declaring in this clause what the Basis of Union was without reading it. His amendment was lost on divi- sion. Provision of Law Or8tewrs. tied!" The Attorney-General explained that part of Clause 8 had been taken out of the original draft of the bill. This part taken out had pro- vided that a church which had voted against going into the United Church could take a revote it it wished be- fore June 10. At the meeting of the subcommittee that day the sugges- tion had been made to insett an amendment something like that which Mr. MecBride hid now moved, but the objection had been made that some churches which voted Charles R. McKeown (ConServa- tive, Dufterin) asked if the adoption of such an amendment would mean that a non-concurring congregation could not come into the United Church after June 10 next if it want- ed to. Mr. MacBride answered in the negative. _ _ Clause l, the title clause. was carried without discussion. but when Clause 2 was reached Robert L. Brackin (Liberal. West Kent) moved an amendment so that the reading "What does it mean'. the Chtirchd, mean the Moderator?" asked Aurelio en Belanger (Liberal. Russell). of the clause. "the negotiating Churches means the Churches men- tioned in the preamble. etc.." was changed to "the negotiating Churches means the Churches and Moderator of the General Assembly of the Presbyterian Church in Can- ada mentioned in the preamble, etc." Brackin Amendment Rejected. Mid io against Union had declared their in- tention of remaining independent entities until the proposed new Pres- byterian Church had been formed This amendment would mean that all non-concurring congregations would have to enter the Presbyterian Church. Vote Into, But Not Out. w. H. Chambers (Conservative. West Wellington). said he thought . church should have the titht at any time to vote into Union. Metttttertr--.Or out. Mr. Chambers-t wouldn't my that. Memhertr--0h, oh, oh! Ot course not. Mr. MacBride thought there was' nothing in his amendment to com- pel any church to come into the Presbyterian Church. He started to read a newspaper account of Dr. Gandier's reported utterance about schism, when Premier Ferguson asked it it were [air to rely on a newspaper clipping on a, serious matter of that kind. He hoped they would not bring matters into the de, hate to rouse antagonism. Dr. Candler Submits Denial. Mr. Rankin stated that-he held m his hand a statement trom Dr. Gan- dier saying that the report of his speech was absolutely and emphati- cally denied by Dr. Gandjer. - Premier Ferguson thought the point raised by Mr. MacBride was covered by the section as it stood, but Col. Currie objected that the section still left the non-concurring congregations subject to another vote. The Premier argued that, as respects the churches which had gone into Union. the unit became merged with the whole, and the vote of the unit did not have any effect. "This act says the unit which stays out can do what it likes. Are we going to legislate that it can't make up its own mind? It seems to me that this section makes provision for absolute independence of the con- gregation voting itself out. Could there be anything more desirable?" -MacBridc and Lewis Differ. "Shouldn't the act of any state of amalgamation emanate from themselves?" asked the Premier. The Brant member contended that it did emanate from themselves. hut Mr. Lewis interrupted to say that it would be fairer for Mr. Mac- Bride to say that it came not trom the non-concurring Preshyterians but from one minister of it? Mr. MacBrido maintained that the amendment came trom the Church Association and that he had it sup- ported by petition, telegram and telephone. "Common Sense. Anyway." bel Mr. MacBride thought that the result would be to leave throughout Ontario a lot ot disorganized units. "Are we going to leave them in that sort of chaos ?" "It's common sense. anyway," de. clared Mr. McCausland. 7 ..