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MAJORITY VOTES HALT QUESTIONS PUT BY SINCLATR Public Accounts Committee Turns Down Opsosition Re-- quest for Answer COLLECTION OF REVENUE Control.er Controls Only His Department--No Penalties for Non--Payment Poliing a vote of 20 to 7 in the Committcs on Public Accounts yester-- day, Government members prevented William E. N. Sinclair, Liberal Leader, and other members of ths Opposition from publicly securing infosmation relative to stock transactions and re-- ports mads to the Attorney--General's Department. taxes from brckerage firms on the Standard Stock and Mining Exchange, Hoen. Willlzm Finlayson, represonting the Governmont, maintained that the namos should not be revealed. He em-- phasized that brokcrage investigations are still gcoing on and cas>s are be-- fore the courts. HMoen. William D. Black, Chairman cof the committes, upheld Mr. Finlayson. Further Protests. Inquiring into an item of $§620,314 stock tranrsfer tax, Mr. Sinclair plied James T. White, K.C., Controller of Revenue, with qguestions. When Mr. White handed Mr. Sinclair a statement of returns to his department showing A few minutes later, when Mzr. Sin-- clair tried to get doetails of a report made by some one in the Controller's Departmsont to the Attorney--General's Dcepartment, Mry. Finlayson again taised protests. He objected to thr infor-- maticn in the report being given. Then he objccted to the date being made public, voicing his previous argument. He stated that if even the dave was given out one could link it up with the stock dsals by simply locking up stcck transactions at that time. During the sitting Mr. Sinclair maintaimed that information given by Mr. White conveyed an impressicon of the Government's financial adminis-- traton that differed from that given in the Budget presentation. Do¢s Not Control All Revenue. Especially did the Liberal Leader de-- clare this when Mr. White stated that, while he was Controller of Revenue, bhe did unct control all the revenue cf the Government. In fact, he explain-- ed, his offisce only really had to do with the Treasury Department. He stated that he did not know of any cne man who was responsible for all the collecting of revenue. Mr. White was first questioned as to details of how long he had been in of-- fice, and the types of tax and returns ccllected by his department. He stated that the check--up was made as rapidly as possible. But, said he, the Province had not yet been completely covered by ed on Monday next, when the commit-- tee again meets. a check--up, and the Government had no annual audit of companies in Ontario with stock for sale. Mr. White will be further question-- \ No Lists of Sharcholders. No Lists of Shareholders. Replying to another question, he told Mr. Sinclair that three years ago lists of shareholders had been climinated from the annual returns. Ccontinuing with his testimony, he stated that no penalties had been col-- lected for non--payment of dues, as "nobody deliberately neglected to pay." "And so another source of informa-- tion was cut off?" said Mr. Sinclair. "I don't know if we would use that information," Mr. White replied. Mr. White explained that certain de-- partments collected their own revenue, and that he did not investigate arrears in those departments. '"We have been operating for only two years," said he. "We don't want to take on more than we can digest. I expect that in time we can arrange to take over that work." "It wouldn't do for you to come into the House and make that kind of specch," Mr. Sinclair said, and added that one could understand from the Budget report that there was central control and guarantce of collecting ar-- rears. Mr. Sinclair also inquired if his de-- partment was so understaffed that he could not do the other work. Mr. White replied that it would take time to ar-- range the system whereby his depart-- ment might take over from other de-- partments. Who Is Responsible? "Who is responsible to the Govern-- ment for the collection of all rev-- enues?" Mr. Sinclair asked. "I don't think any one is," Mr. White replied. "I certainly am not." He stated that, as Controller of Rev-- enue, he was Controller in the Treas-- ury Department. Mr. Sinclair said that one was led to believe otherwise from the Budget speech. _"Oh, no," said Hon. Dr. Joseph D. Monteith, Provincial Treasurer. "No, no," began Mr. Finlayson, when Mr. Sinclair interrupted with: "All right: we don't want to get in an ar-- gument again. We want to stand in right with the Chairman." Mr. Sinclair asked for one of the re-- turns received by the Controller. He was handed a document bearing state-- ment of tax on certain brokerage com-- panies in the Standard Exchange. Mr. Finlayson protested that it was not in the public interest that the names be made known, as prosecutions were before the courts and investigations continuing. Dues for One Week. "I don't see why the names should be published," Mr. Finlayson again in-- terrupted. G s Mr. Sinclair noted that the state-- ment was one of dues of $7,062 for the week ending Oct. 27, 1928. >3 "If you say the investigation can't go on this way, it won't go on this way, but I ask for a ruling," Mr. Sinclair retorted. Chairman Black upheld Mr. Finlay-- son, saying: "His point is well taken; it is not in the best interests to publish this." _ "Does the litigation go back to 1928?" Mr. Sinclair asked. > "Having given a ruling without know-- | ing what names are here, I'm obligedl to submit," Mr. Sinclair replied. | "The investigation is going back far beyond that," Mr. Finlayson declared. "The whole question is before the| courts." | "This is the only place that I'd not.' Mr. Finlayson stated he would fur-- nish copies of the statement with the namos taken out. __"I don't want a blank form. It's no good to me," Mr. Sinclair retorted. _ Mr. Black stated that he understood that names in the document were of companies involved in litigation. arCD 20 be aiiowed to put uis statement in evidence," said Mr. Sinclair. "Oh, you always do make a speech," Mr. Finlayson said, sourly. Departmental Report. Questioned as to a report made from his department to that of the Attorney-- General calling for Crown investigation, Mr. White stated that he did not make the report, but that some one in his department did. He did not know ex-- actly who had done it. It was done some months ago, said he. He said the report might have been made by W. A. Orr, his assistant, or by H. R. Boal. Mr. Sinclair noted that in the public accounts Mr. Boal was listed as "Head Inspector of Amusements Tax" Mr. White explained that he was head of all inspectors of the depart-- ment. Mr. Sinclair asked what information was conveyed in the report. o oi Mr. Finlayson protested that it should not be divulged. "If you gave that here it might ruin prosecutions," said he. "Books might be destroyed, witnesses got out of the way." . "What was the first date that the information was given?" Mr. Sinclair then asked. Mr. Finlayson again objected. "What objection is there to giving the date?" A. Russell Nesbitt (Conser-- vative, Toronto--Bracondale) asked. Mr. Finlayson explained that the date could be connected with stock exchanges, and conclusions drawn. * -ml;/[x"."s-i'x"uw:l;.i;préssed that his question should be answered. Chairman Black ruled against him, saying: "It may prejudics the case." Appeals From Ruling. "I appeal from the ruling of the Chair," Mr. Sinclair replied. A vote by a showing of hands was called. It was 20 to 7 against Mr. Sinclair. Mr. Nesbitt voted with his fellow--Conservatives. _ The Liberal Leader asked that it be polled. The poll also was 20 to 7 in favor of the ruling. 5_ At this juncture another flare--up occurred. Mr. Sinclair remarked that he could not hear what the witness was saying, becaus> of the noise that was going on, and that if the Chairman did not keep better order he would dis-- continue his examination. Chairman--I have tried to keep good order. I have asked the members of the committse to stop talking, and I now repzsat my request. And I would thank my honorable friend (Mr. Sin-- clair) for the courteous manner in which he has referred to me. _ Mr. Sinclair--I will thank my nonoil« able friend (Chairman Black) for the courteous way in which he has given his rulings. Chairman--I make my rulings AC-- cording to my best judgment, and if they don't happen to coincide with the views of my honorable friend-- Mr. Sinclair--I happen to be a law-- yer, and I know what should be done. Chorus of Government member "OnH's." Mr. Finlayson--Lawyers know every-- thing. Mr.-- Sinclair--I'm examining the witness, and if order can't be main-- tained I'm not going any farther. Chairman--I am trying to keep order and I don't know that you've been help-- ing very much. Mr. Sinclair--Thank you. Chairman--Now go on with your ex-- amination. Mr. Sinclair--Thank you. Checking Up Offices. Since late in 1927, Mr. White stated, there have been inspectors engaged in checking up the brokerage offices. In the summer months, when race--tracks were being checked, there would be no inspectors, he presumed, at work in the brokers' offices. will thank my honor--