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Spsaking of the debt--retirement plan, Mr. Nixon said: "The weakness and absoluts certaintvy of failure of other part of the obligations of these Commissions." & Living in such a wealthy district as Brant, it was casy to talk about hard times. said Mr. Cooke in his opening remarks. There were thousands of persons, however, who found their burden of taxation too great for them, and the Dopartment of Education was making a real and honest effort to relieve this burden. Replying to S. C. Tweed (Liboral, Waterloo North), Liberal financial critic, Mr. Cooke said that there was e e ns e t n s n n ce o ied s i ciis no basis for his criticism that $63,-- 000,000 had bsen withdrawn from the Timiskaming & Northern Qntario Railway last year. Mr. Cooke at this point dealt briefly with the sale of liquor in Ontario, and said that there was no comparison between the Quebec system of free sale and the Ontario restrictive policy. The cost of administration of control Mr. Cooke then dealt with debt re-- tirement and pointed out that the plan which would retire the debt with-- in twenty years dealt only with the debt which existed at the time the plan came into force. A very credit-- able showing had been made by this Government. said Mr. Cooke. No Provincial Treasurer was ever en-- titled to more credit than Hon. W. H. Price, who, when he held that port-- folio, originated and introduced this scheme of debt retirement. s The Minister then turned to the matter of power, and said that during the past four years the Ontario Hydro--Electric Power Commission had acquired various properties, There were four independent sources of power in Quebec, and he defended the purchase of power from these sources, Rural Power Lines. hi d a oofi 012040 2. h 1.2,00000, it atcidintertvalta nds Orn i Nlrwlr Pn t W was one of the reasons why Ontario had t~ bring her liquor prices in line wich Ciose of the other Provinces. Debt Retirement. On the question of rural Hydro ex-- tension, the Minister stated that prior to 1923 only 500 miles of rural line had existed, and these had not been rural lines in the real meaning of the word. Since then the growth of rural extension had been the most remark-- able in the history of the world. At times last summer, explained he, the Hydro was building as many as ten miles of line per day. This meant that factories in the Province were rolling thirty miles of wire a day, 400 to 500 miles of poles were being got cut, transformers were being erccted, and a substantiarl contribution was being made by the expansion toward easing the «nemploymont situation. There had been some criticism in the House of rural extension, he said, and year after year it had come from practically the same sources. The members for tne Groys, Fargquhar Oliver (U.F.O.) and J. J. Taylor (Progressive), and the member for Dufferin, T. K. Slack (Progressive), had, he contended, been outstanding in this respect. Inquiriss into their districts had informed him, he said, that in Grey there wore onlf 152 rural ' subscribers, and in Dufferin only "Conditions in these counties," as-- soerted Mr. Cooke, "Aare equal to con-- diticons, I would say, in any other county. The land is just as good, The people are as well to do and a% in-- titty--nine rural subscribers. the difference, thon, with regard to their rural power con.sumrmon. except that it may be because of the leader-- ship of their members and the infor-- mation they carry back to them." Defining the "remarkable manner'" in which Hydro pays its way, Mr. Cooke cited as parallel casss that of the City of Toronto, and that of the hamlet of Stirling in his own con-- stituency. In Toronto, with some 65,000 consumers, assets had been provided for the purpose of supply-- ing power that appproximated $190,-- 000,000. In Stirling, the home of some 800 pzsople, $10,000 had been borrowed five years ago to erect a Cistributing system. Sinc2 then that borrowing had neen paid off, exten-- sions costing $12,000 had been made, a $10,000 Hydro offics had been built, and at the present time the little municipality had some $12,000 in the bank. Replies to Liberals. Getting down to the recent Lib-- eral Opposition criticism of th»> Hy-- dro's policy, Mr. Cooke declared that such statements as Dr. McQuibban's assertions to the effect that Hydro' was shrouded with secrecy, that the great principles of Beck and Whit-- ney had been rent asunder, thait the whole enterprise was playing into the hands of private development had never bsen heard in the Houss before. Whether, he added, Dr. Mc-- Quibban was speaking his own mind or the carefully prepared statem°nt of others, "it was most unfortunate," said the Hydro Chairman, "that a man should try to speak with as-- }surance on things on which he has boeen very ill--informed." Dr. McQuibban had, he contend2d, "a wonderful imzagination." Re-- ferring to the Libsral mamber's de-- tailed explanation of the Bsauharnois prespectus--a prospectus in which the Beauharnois had advertised the fact they were going to supply On-- tario with power, Mr. Cooke declared that Dr. McQuibban had asked: "What right has Beauharnois to do such a thing?" "Well," Mr. Cooke continued, "I don't know what right they have. Bsauharnois is a privats company. What I'm concernsd with is how we can provide power for the 'people of this Province." s people aAare aAs weil to do and as in-- telligent. It is pretty hard to explain Assailing Dr. McQuiboan's charges that the Province was sick to death of HMydro's "full--dress parads of speeches" and that it was tims that the Commission's chest shnould be thrown back and the "skelston" laid bare, the Hydro Chairman, heatedly, observed that Dr. McQuibban had had considerable temerity in spsaking of things of which he knew no more than the average child one might mset going down the strest. Calls for Order. "I might recall something from his-- tory in this connection," declared Mr. Cooke, "and point out that if no risks had been taken the cliffis of Dover would still mark the outer boundaries of the British Empire. If the Hydro When the flare--up subsided, Mr., Cooke procesded to deal with what he| termed his critic's inferences that the contracts into which Hydro had en-- tered were '"'not worth the monsy'" and that toa much had been ventured. "Order, order," cried Liveral Lead-- er Sinclair. Mr. Cooke went on. Mr. Sinclair--Mr. Speaker, cou'dn't thcal honorable member be called to order. Mr. Sinzclair--You can't say that-- about knowing no more than a babe. Mr. Cooke--I'm speaking of having na more knowledge--intimate under-- standing of the question. _ _ Mr. Cooke--What ds you want me to explain. _ >> 3 s aYc_'\ 3-5 5o % | _ "such statements are not truse," | said Mr. Cocke, "and I want to prove 'l', here tonight, in Sir Adam's own i handwriting." had not taken a risk in purchasing the Ontario Power Company, th2 Elec-- tric Development Company, and had not put $18,000,000 into the Chippawa development, the municipalities of this Province would not be in the fortunate position in which they find themselves today." At some length, the speaker dealt with the purchase of the Dominion Power and Transmission Company at Hamilton; referred to the negotiations which the Commission has under way toward the sale of company subsid-- iaries--negotiations which, when con-- summated, will net $6,875,000 -- and made it perfectly patent that in his opinion the Hydro should operate for the development and distribution of energy alone. | C e e > When he went on the Hydro Com-- mission in 1923, said Mr. Cooke, the first thing he had to consider, along with his associates, was the purchase of outside power. Sir Adam could see then, submitted Mr. Cooke, that Niagara was not going to last forever. Under consideration was the purchase of 2;310.000 h.p. from Quebsc at $15 per h.p. Referring to the old "Georgian Bay" | attempted power steal, Mr. Cooke | claimed that it was no $15 power | price (a@ price criticized by the Lib-- : erals now), but a $19 demand which | the proponents of that Dominion bill | wantsd if their demands went| through. "If those psople," said he, | "could have so established themselves | as to demand $19, an additional extra | revenue of some $4,000,000 would have gone their way. It was the most gigantic scheme ever sought to be | presented in conneciion with private ; interests." | _ _Mr. Cooke, toward the conclusion of his address, dealt with the pos'-- tion of local Hydro planis. Under the statutes, he said, no»t ons do.lar of |these properties cculd go to the Prov-- klnce. Th $360,000,0090 in assets must ultimately rovert to the municipalities, The Govornment, he concluded, would loyally chssrve every pledg> and un-- dertaking ever given to the munici-- palities. Mr. Cooke quoted letters of Sir Adam from the documents of the Com-- mission to show that the great Hydro champion's policy was still the policy of today. "These documents," he challenged, "are open to every mem-- ber of the House if they desire to see them, and to the press of the Prov-- ince, too." Georgian Bay Power. In belligosrent mood Mr. Cooke de-- nied Liberal Opposition accusations that the Hydro had departed from the policy of Sir Adam Beck. Mr. Ccoke told how the Hydro Commission had gone to the then Premier of the Province, Hon. G. Howard Ferguson, and had asked him to protest against the Georgian Bay Canal Bill; how Mr. Ferzuson had brougzht a resolution boefore the House, and how, when put to a vots, '"only one mmber of the House voiced a protest against the roso'ution." _ "If you dosubt my assertion, get 2| copy of The Glioye (reading dats),| you will find it all there. | "Perhaps he (Libaral Leader Sin-- clair)," saild Mr. Cooke, "was afraid | of what might happen. His cwni| party was then in power at OStawa. He may protest today of his love for| Hydrc, but, I fear, he loves his politi--| cal party more." |