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| --John 'A. Sangster (Liberal, Glen-- garry) urged the Government to pro-- ceed with all spsed with the Hydro's propeseod develonment on the Caril-- lon. Back in 1923 this development had bren talked of, but nothing, he said, had come of it yet. Defenis Government. ! G. H. Challies (Consorvative, Dun-- das) quoted figures from the Financial Post to show, as he intended, that Dr.' McQuibban's statements with respect to the amount of off--peak power ex-- ported to the United States were in-- correct. He also> claimsd. in answer to Literal contentions, that Sir Adam Beck had had no power negotiations \with Quebec; that in 1912 Sir Adam had contracted for from 8,000 to up his sleeves" to the job of showing the Hydro in its true light, and that he would keep his sleeves rolled np until "we correct the situation, _ or wreck the whole Government of On-- farlo i1 doing It." ; +-- _ -- _ bec." while the old St. Lawrence kept on flowing down to the sea untouched. Hydro, he submitted, had to turn around and get out of Quebes. If it didn't it was "done," and the Con-- servative Government done with it. "Right now," said he, "the Conserv-- altive Party is rocking to its founda-- tions." A long laugh went up at this point from Edward C. Graves (Conserva-- tive. St. Catharines). It appeared, he stated, that the power policy of the HMydro was to be "more and more power from Que-- "Laugh," said Dr. McQuibban, by way of answer. *"When you get out on the hustings again you will find that what I'm saving is true." | ban's speech " last wook ~completeiy iennihilatod" ovy the Acting Hydro | Chairman -- his statements "com-- 'nlorrly disproved"--but such had not been the case. In so far as he had ]'zcns', Mr. Cooke: (said Mr. Sinclait) ihad confirmed Dr. McQuibban's | charges. It was all right for Mr. Cooke to promiss Mr. Nixon informa-- tion regarding off--peak power that \he could not use, but he (Mr. Sin-- \clair) didn't want such information. It was only so much excess baggage --not worth carrying around. As a ! public man he wanted information to use in the public's interests. How anv momber of the HMHouse cauld be it coanrt 's .& . &rat*c dorstkt: sule, said Mr argume;'. proved ns Simply ~scavse the . ing *"*fiu""~s« 32C PC sur2 rM.ti Y' 3 he, th: 12,000 horsepower from.fedar Rapids for the benefit of the ; --ple of East-- ern Ontario. Mr. Nixon asked Mr. Cooke, with re-- gard to the export of off--peak power if he could give the names of the American consumers of the same, anc at what prices they purchased it. Ir reply, Mr. Cooke stated that it wa« not in the interests of the HMHydro 0o the Province to disclose the rates, bu assured Mr. Nixon that, if he woulc come to the Hydro Commission of: fices or sos him after the House rose he would furnish him with the figures reouested. Mr. Sinclair told the House that ho had expected to see Dr. MceQuib-- ban's speech " last wock "completely annihilated" oy the Acting Hydro Chairman -- his statements "com-- nletely dGdisnroved"--but such had not be ki th.s,sore cheaply. Feel CC 4 for Critic. By "Ajfy of reply, Mr. ©Cooke thought it "cruel" that Dr. McQuib-- ban bad been placed in the position h2 had b>en plasoed. He was rathe:_' catisfied with Mr. CoC thet Cuebec pnowsor w2 ~nd delivered to thom "lino: to im 2c power was nO , : he, that it could n« a 0 Mr. Cocok® ine tha 44 Ai4 cheaber é,'é' ad ) was p the alB 4 08¥ Liboral spokesman had been doing "mor listening than tudying" of the Hyo-- situation, for, he claimed, most of 1 statements made had beexg broadc*= -- last summer about tb'_} virce. -- _"By whom?" aske "Let us have the natue. "I'm:not given to bandy ¢fig n around the Legislature," Sa?fis Coore, "bu* let me put it th by inference." 'Referming to the attempted Ge . gian B:tx tanal steal of some yeA ago, thek ydro Commissioner told of Hydco's ~varting of the plans of the men be Ai the prviect, and asked: "Isn't -- nav..al, nouw, that the people wo a _ <'ted %Jould be resentful of o;& ac'ti And so you have heard a adcasting that has been go-- i1 y A Sinc&';ir expressed the ° view tL. 1t AIr. CK8ke seemed to suggest thg n"r . of Harry Sifton as that of thew br.adcaster. "Well, just let me say," he added, "that he had nothing to do with the preparation of this speech. Let my honorable friend get back to his original argument. All the time Dr. MeQuibban has been working on this speech Mr. Sifton has been in the West." Premier Henry, in a brief summing-- up of the debate, assumed that Dr. McQuibban had got "mixed" in his off--peak power and his firm power. He would like to know, he said caus-- tically, if Dr. McQuibban really ap-- preciatcd what off--peak power meant. As the former Chairman of the Hydro, C. A. Magrath, had repeatedly told the House and the public at large, the Hydro was picking up a million dollars annually in the sale to the States of this off--peak power. More Mystery. "You say they've been picking up $1,000,000 yearly--a lot of money," Mr. Sinclair put in, "but you won't tell us the terms of the contracts, who gets the power, or what they pay for it. How are we to know what's what? That's another example of the mystery about the Hydro. No wonder there is uncasiness and suspicion about the way things are being run." % At some length, Mr. Henry then proceeded to explain the difference between off--peak power and firm power. The only power going to the States that could be made available here, he said, was off--peak, and it would be made available when de-- manded. Under the old contracts of the Ontario Power Company the Com-- mission was duty--bound to continue its sale of firm power. With Mr. Cooke, he agreed that, by resolution of the Legislature, discontinuance of the export of off--peak could be directed. The estimates were then passed. NMarch 31 & » uOMPULSORY FUNDS > rOR FRERCHTER ' W. L. Wilkinson, Vice--President of the Ontario Municipal Association, stated that that body had unanimous-- ly voted down a proposal similar to the provisions of the bill. The bill was defeated by the committee, Mr. Murphy and Wilfrid Heighington (Conservative, Toronto--St. David) alone supporting it. : Nearly All Municipalities In-- volved -- Register Protests David Lamb, Secretary--Treasurer of the Firefighters' Association, put up a vigorous defense of the bill. He de-- clared that Belleville had been left out of the municipalities to which the act would apply by request of the Belleville firemen, a request, he added, which had been made under pressure of the Council. He pointed out that the payments of the municipalities to the funds would not commence until 1933. Mayor Beverley Robson of Guelph declared that the City Coun-- cils were elected to decide such ques-- tions. He denounced the bill as "in-- iquitous legislation." _ Following protests from the repre-- sentatives of nearly all the cities in-- volved, the Legal Bills Committee oi the Legislature yesterday threw out 'he act which would have made it compulsory for 22 Ontario municipali-- lies to esiabiish superannuation and benefit tfunds for firemon. WELL _ TREATED NOW "Can we go over the hsads of mu-- nicipalities and force them ta con-- tribute nearly $1,000,.000 to these funds?" asked Mr. Macaulay. "I have telegrams from all municipalities op-- posing this bill." C. F. Swayze, Mayor of Niagara Falls, was chosen speaker of the rep-- resentatives of municipalities opposing the measure. He stated that Niagara Falls Council at a special meeting had unanimously opposed the legislation. The objectionable feature of the bill was its compulsory provision. W. T. Henderson, City Solicitor of Brant-- ford, argued that his municipality simply could not afford to establish such a fund at the present time. It had made considerable commitments in unemployment -- relief. Injured firemen of Braniford's department were generously looked after by the municipality, he continued. The fire-- men recoived better treatment than most workmen in the shops, a begin-- ning salary of $3.50 a day and two weeks' holidays with pay. Following Mr. Henderson, Mayor Burton Bad-- ford of Chatham also spoke in oppo-- sition to the bill. He declared that such a measure would be voted down 99 to 1 in a reference to the rate-- payers. The bill was sponsored by E. J. Murphy -- (Conservative, Toronto--Si. Patrick), and supportecd before the committee by J. R. Cartwright, so-- licitor for the Ontario Firefighters' Association. Mr. Cartwright declared that firefighting was the most hazar-- dous of peacetime occupations. The superannuation and benefit funds which the bill sought to establish would provide an adequate retiring allowance for firemen of more than 30 years' service. It would be formed by contributions of 2 per cont. of the firemen's salaries by the municipali-- ties, and the firemen themselves would be assessed up"t9' 7 per cent. of their salarios. The accrued liabilitics of the mu-- nicipalities '<involved which cities would have to contribute at the open-- ing of the fund totalled $985,.000. '"This bill forces municipalities to adopt this plan," said Hon. Leopold Macaulay, Provincial Secretary, who prosided at the meeting. '"Yes," said Mr. Cartwright, "there has been permissive legislation for years, but efforts to induce the mu-- nicipalities to adopt the plan volun-- tarily have boon unsuczcessiul. ARE NOT APPROVEL