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Aims to En courage Boards to Practice Economy, States Pre-- mier--Plans Fees for "Repeaters" Changed Regulation Of School Grants Favored by Henry SINCLAIR'S BILLS ARE WITHDRAWN There should be a generai revamp-- ing of the regulations regarding On-- tario's gran's for educational pur-- puses, in corder that greater encour-- agement be given school boards toa practice economy, Premior Henry stated in the Legislature yesterday. His mind was definitely made up that this was desirable, no sard, while dis-- cussing proposed amenaments to the Public School, High School and Ado!-- escent Echools Acts, introduced by W. E. N. Sinclair, Liberal House Leader. The Prime Minister, who is also Minister of Education, also stated he intended bringing in an amendment, which was already drafted, to provide that, whore students remained longer than a certain poeriod in high schools, they should have to pay fees. In the draft bill a period of six years is named, but he was not sure but that this might be too drastic. Aims to Lessen Costs. Mr. Sinclair's bills proposed raising the age at which children should go to school from 5 to 6; lowering the age to which they must continue at school from 16 to 15; and provid-- ing a fee for "repeaters" in high schoo's. He witrdrew them all in face of Government opposition. His purpose in sponsoring the bills was to lessen the costs of education, he said. A feature of the debate was Hon. James Lyons, former Minister of Lands and Forests, taking issus with his leader, Premier Henry, on the principles of the first two bills Mr. Iyons and Mr. Sinclair, Mayors of Saul}! Ste. Maric and Oshawa, re-- soectively, both deplored the high cost of educatioa. Ir. speaking to his bill to raise the age of admiittance to public schools from 5 to 6, Mr. Sinclair noted that the Public School Act still provided for youths up to the age of 21 years to attend these schools. This had been allowed when, years back, young people did go to public schools to this age. But. as'there were none doing so now, the clause might be retained, if only as a mement» of the past. Six Years Early Enough. "From 5 to 6 years is a tender age," the Liberal House Leader re-- marked. "My own opinion is that 6 years is quite carly enough to compel a child to go to school. _ It costs more to handle a child of that age than it does one of more mature years. Exporience, I bolieve, shows that 6 years is early enough. At 5 they are still almost babies, and the home is the better place for them. Starting at 6 pears, they will make more rapid progress. From 5 to 6 it is a year wasted at school at the exponse of the taxpayers, and school boards are at present struggling with problems they have never had ufore. _ _1 us Revkmittad tn tha DCidrC. "This request was submitted to the . department some time ago," replied tmmjer Henry_ "lt '-s thought thlt | it would be a step in the wrong direc-- | tion. _ They do not have to go to | school at 5. S the parents have in-- ention to keep them at home un-- til they are $. The problem is not a great ons. Up to the depres-- sion, the department had a regula~-- tion setting forth the maximum num-- are 15 they have their minds made up as to whether they wish to remain in school or not. '__"The argument is advanced that ' there is no work to which they could \go. 'That is unfortunately so; but ' who pays for keeping them at school? It is the already overburdened mu-- nicipality. 'Those who wish to attend could still do so, but it would not be compulsory. In times like these we must look for remedies for high taxa-- tion," Mr. Sinclair said. School Better Than Streets. Eon the municipalities," responded the Prime Minister. "And, with the pres-- ent conditions, I think that the best | place for these boys and girls is in school. At the conference we had in Ottawa, one Prime Minister suggested that there should be camps to which these young men could go. f ber of pupils in one classroom. That is not now being enforced. "Of the 560,000 children going to public and separate primary schools in this Province, only 5.5 per cent. are under 6 years of age, and of these 2%, per cent. are in the kin-- dergarten. I am not favorable to the amendment. Those who are not blessed with too much of this world's goods wish their children to get through school as soon as possible, and we should not put a barrier in their way. Roamed Fields Until 9';. "Personally, I was allowed to roam the fields until I was 94 years old. I do not think that I ever caught up. Of course, I might have been below the average," the Prime Minister smiled. "Municipalities are going broke day by day," returned Mr. Sinclair, "I had hoped that something might be done to alleviate the costs without ; crippling the work. I did not go to| school until I was 8 or 9. We\ both got along fairly well. We can | both read and write." | case Premier Henry could not use the same argument as he had in the other --that of parents wishing to get their children through school at an early age. "From 14 to 16, many pupils are just putting in time. By the time t.hgy In relation to the proposed amend-- ment to--the Adolescent School Act, Mr. Sinclair remarked that in this "I would not like to feel that under the relaxed regulations of the depart-- ment there is any real burden placed "These boys and girls are anxi0us to get started. It is a hopeless thing for a boy or girl who has received training, and who has been looking forward to getting started, to have to tramp the streets, and find nothing for them. They are better in school than roaming the streets." Strong arguments were advanced when the agewa.smsedtolsastowhytms should be done, he said, and the argu-- ments were even stronger at present. Ample provision was made for them leaving school if they had any work to go to, he explained. Half Taxes to Schools. It was at this point that Hon. James Lyons rose to differ with his chief. "I have no argument with the Prime Minister, but I wish to express the views of many of the constituents whom I represent," he said. "It is true that there was great enthusiasm for the extension of education. And as a result there was imposed on OUr people a very heavy tax burden. If we look at the tax bills in most of the nwnicipalities we will find that the cost of education makes up about half of them. And one of the reasons for this is the number of pupils attend-- ing school, and the length of time they attend. Personally I am for the raising of the age from 5 to 6. And at 14 or 15 the pupil reaches the age when he has determined whether the future is to be along educational lHnes or whether he wishes to be & tramp the streets, a for them. They are than roaming the | arguments were adyv age was raised to 1¢ farmer or mechanic. March 16. _ W. Newman (Liberal, Victoria North) declared that both teachers and pupils were handicapped by those forced to remain in school when they did not wish to do so. "Too Many Regulations." _ Mr. Sinclair consented to withdraw 'it, but said that if there had been | some easing up of the regulations \there could still be a lot more done along the same line. "I would sug-- gest that you could pretty nearly 'burn up all the regulations and let 'the municipalities run their own show. There are too many regulati'ns," he declared. neeas correction. I am told that in the Sault 25 per cent. of the pupils after 13 or 14 years of age have posi«-- tively made up their minds not to a@bsorb any more education if they can help it. They are a detriment to the schools, as they do not apply themselves and won't let others apply The Prime Minister stated that there | was a plan to have intermediary| !schools. which would take in the last two grades of the public and first two\ of the high schools. In such schools an effort would be made in guiding the pupils to proper vocations. | themselves. And because of the num-- bers remaining in schools, they were becoming crowded. Soon new schools would be needed, thus necessitating more expenditure," Mr. Lyons said. "There is Gefinitely in my mind that there shcould be a revamping of the regulations in regard to grants for educational purposes, so that school boards would be given greater encouragement to economize, until we get over the condition through which we are passing. I trust that this can be done without impairing the work. The 20 per cent. cut in grants applies only to this year," stated the Prime Minister. Wants Action Before Fall. "There are two classes of repeat-- ers, those who are loafers and those who are not abt pupils We do not want to interfere with the latter. Ssometimes the slow fellows get there sooner than the fast ones," said Premier Henry, and then read the draft of the amendment he proposed bringing in to allow fees to be charged those staying in high schools more than six years. "It would penalize the pupil who wants to go to school rather than the loafer," observed Mr. Sinclair. | "That is why I think it should be 'a little more flexible," returned Mr. | Henry. compel repeaters to pay. "The re-- peaters interfere with the others, If there was some such provision as "They may as well all go in the same grave," said Mr. Sinclair, in agreeing to proceed with the bill to this, it would make the students take matters more seriously. They would apply themselves, and the parents would take more interest in them. I appreciate what the Prime Minister has said about revamping the regu-- lations and I hope that this can be done by the time the term opens next fall."