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'The wind--up of the Ontario Budget debate is due on Tuesday, with the two Opposition Leaders and Hon. William Finlayson speaking. The vote will follow. Conversion Loan At Lower Rates Urged by Newman Liberal Seeks Way to Cut Costs--Budget De-- bate Proceeds 'The House was in session until 1.35 this (Friday) morning, the speakers including Thomas A. Blakelock (Lib-- eral--Progressive, Halton), Hon. Dr. Paul Poisson, David J. Taylor (Pro-- gressive, Grey North), Hon. James Lyons (Conservative, Sault Ste. Marie}, William Newman (Liberal Victoria North), Thomas P. Murray (Liberal, Renfrew South), Dr. George V. Harcourt (Conservative, Parry Scund). and James A. Sangster (Liberal, Glengarry). _ Declaring that the Province, must call a halt on financing its operations on borrowed money, William Newman (Liberal, North Victoria) asserted that the Government should at once an-- nounce a conversion loan and reduce the rate of interesi on bonds "to at least 2 per cent." Halton Liberal Speaks. HYDRO DEALS ATTACKED "It is true that we believe in public ownersM&;"but let me say that, unless we get great enterprise back on to its feet for the benefit of our le, I fear that it will not be long be!ore public ownership will be a thing of the past. Then. we have not for-- gotten the purchase of the assets of the Dominion Transmission Company, another junk outfAit, at the alarming figure of $22,000,000." Mr. Blakeiock aemanded an investi-- gation into the expenditures of the Department of Northern Development. '"We hear from all parts of Northern Ontario complaints of padded pay-- lists and public moneys thrown away in large sums to satisfy the thirst of the ward--heeler and the hanger--on. When we read in the public accounts, under the Northern Development, such items as: pay lists, wages of men, $4,-- 198,000; snowshoes amounting to sev-- eral thousands of dollars; hardware, tools and roofing, $176,000; oats and hay, $60,000; lumber and sash, $41,-- 000; matches and supplies, $19,000; and thousands of dollars' worth of radios, is it any wonder that the people want to know what is going on in Northern Ontario?" Attacking the system of government by Commissions consisiing of high-- salaried members, T. A. Blakelock (Liberal, MHalton) declared that the work of Commissions and boards should be directed by the Ministers of the departments. The Hydro Com-- mission of late had been making many bad bargains on behalf of the people. "We have not forgotten, neither has the taxpayer. that payment of $50,000 to John Aird Jr. The people have not forgotten the whitewash investigation that took place. Then,. we also re-- member the purchasing of power from ocutside sources, while our own plants are partly closed down, and with no immediate need whatever. ed all the different companies holding this stock," said Mr. Blakelock. "The people are wondering also why the bonds of the Ontario Power Serv-- ice Corgzratlon were purchased at $90, when the same could be purchased at $27. 'The people will not forget these things. The news shocked the Prov-- ince the other day when it becams known that Right Hon. Arthur Meighen. a member of our Hydro Commission. appointed by this Gov-- ernment. was the man who represent-- Cannot Blame Opposition. s "I care not what my friends oppo-- site say. We are in an awful mess, and they cannot put the blame on the Opposition. This Government has been in power since 1923. It turned out of power the Government known as the Drury Government. In the election of 1923 this Government charged that the Drury Administra-- tion spent money like drunken sailors. It said that the Province would go bankrupt unless this wild spending was put an end to. '"When this present Government came into power the Provincial debt was something like $200,000,000. Going bankrupt, was its cry. Spending was to be cut. Yet today, after ten years of power, we have a Provincial debt of more than $570,000,000 in face of all the new taxation, until today we have taxed almost anything and every-- thing to satisfy this expensive Gov-- ernment." "Let me suggest that the Govern-- ment should bring back to the various departments of the Government the work now being administered by Com-- missions. These Commissions are operating outside the Government at great cost to the taxpayer, and surely our ten departments of government, each with a Cabinet Minister, and all kinds of deputies and assistants, can handle the work of these Commissions at a great saving to the taxpayers. Let the Ministers run their own de-- partments without these boards or Commissions." Administration Costs. '"We have in the Workmen's Com-- pensation Board a Chairman receiv-- ing a salary of $14.000, a defeated Conservative from Oxford South. He also carries on, I believe, a legal prac-- tice on the side, and I believe he also receives a retainer of $1,600 a year besides. Other members of this koard receive $8,000 and $9,000 a year. Why cannot this work be put under the Minister of Labor?" The administration costs of the Mothers' Allowances Commission were $48,000 a year; and the Pensions Board, in salaries, contingencies and travelling expenses, etc., a further $100,000. The Apprenticeship Board cost another $27.000, Mr. Blakelock said. "I say that this is a waste of public funds, and the Government should lose no time in scrapping this act," he said in respect to the latter. Salaries Increased. The Government has been preach-- ing economy, he said. The poor tax-- payers were not considered two years ago when up went the Cabinet Min-- isters' salaries $2,000 each. Then, again, the poor taxpayer was not con-- sidered when the bonds of the On-- tario Power Service Corporation were purchased at the high figure of $90, when the same could have been pur-- chased in the open market at $27. '"'Then I ask if the taxpayer was considered a few days ago, when out went the old and in came the new, all the fine chesterfields and easy chairs for the Conservative committee rooms. I say that the taxpayers were not con-- sidered at all, and I have no fear in saying that the Government does not want an election for one reason only, and that is, defeat is waiting just around the corner." Hon, Paul Poisson Speaks. That there had been errors in judg-- ment in the administration of the Hydro was admitted in the Legislature yesterday by Hon. Paul Poisson (Con-- servative, Essex North) in his address on the Budget debate. "I am not go-- ing to say that there have been no errors of judgment. There have been, perhaps," he said. But he then asked the Opposition to compare the errors there had been in the Hydro with those of the Canadian National Rail-- ways administration in past years. . said, declaring that the future of the Hydro depended on the Conservative Party. Dr. Poisson estimated that the Hydro was now of a value of $1,000,-- 000,000 to the Province, in comparison with the $350,000,000 which had been invested in it. "There had been a concerted attack on the Hydro by the Opposition. This attack is not from the users of the Hydro, from the municipalitiee or from the people, but it is from the Liberal and Progressive Parties," he March 31. they were opposed to was maladmin-- 'istn,tion of this public utility. And 'during the fourteen--year period the only man he had heard get up in the House and say he was opposed to public ownership was A. H. Acres | (Conservative, Carleton), who spoke Wednesday. Profit--Taking Condemned. "The July, 1932, loan," he said "was a 14--year fiotation, bearing in-- terest at 5% per cent., and was offer-- ed to the publis at 97 cents on the dollar. The advertisement appeared on Monday, and by Thursday, some three or four days later, the entire amount had been purchased through banks, brokers and insurance com-- panies On Friday the price was up to 98% cents, giving the holders an immediate profit of some $300,000. Five days later they were priced at par, adding another $300,000 profit to the holders, and within three weeks were offered at 105 retail and, I think, reached a peak of 106. At 105 that meant for every $97 paid by the pur-- chaser, they (the companies) had a clear $8 profit in the course of three weeks, or on the total sum a profit of $1,600,000, including 5% per cent. on the original purchase price." Declares Saving Possible. D. J. Taylor (Progressive, Grey North) scored the Government for allowing what, he alleged, was exces-- sive profit--taking by investment houses on a $20,000,000 loan issued in July, 1932; roundly attacked expenditures on furniture installed in the Speak-- er's chambers and the Conservative members' lounging--room, which he termed luxuries; declared that the Administration had "robbed" the ex-- isting Sinking Fund by selling cer-- tain British securities held therein; charged the Government with respon-- sibility for high taxation in munici-- palities, and asserted that Premier Henry was not within his rights in refusing to give information on Hydro officials' salaries. Epeaking immediately after Dr. Poisson, D. J. Taylor (Progressive, Grey North) said that during his fourteen years in the House he had never heard any Opposition member say he was opposed to Hydro. What Continuing his financial criticism, the North Grey Progressive said, sub-- jJect to correction, which was not forthcoming from the Government benches, that the Administration had robbed the Provincial sinking fund by selling British bonds. He stated: "It would appear to me, and I am subject to correction if I am wrong in this, that the present Government, notwithstanding their borrowings during the year of well up to $185,000,000, have found themselves shoy of sufficient funds to carry on and have sold what appear to be British loans, purchased possibly at Mr. Taylor declared that a longer period of advertising would have given the public an opportunity to buy these bonds at par, "and the Government would have been able to save the tax-- gnyer considerable sums that were anded out to a preferred financial