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Amendment F o r e c a st W h i c.h Would Bar Meighen From Second Post-Finlayson Called to Account by Simpson for His References to "Communism" Directorate Links With Public Offices Censured by Nixon SINCLAIR OFFERS ECONOMY PLANS When he suggested that members of the Opposition in the Legislature who were supporters of Mitchell P. Hepburn, Ontario Liberal Leader. be- longed to the "Russian" and "Com- munist" groups ot the Liberal Party. Hon. William Piniayson. Minister of Lands and Forests. precipitated a verbal combat at the conclusion of the Budget debate in the Legislature yesterday. Dr. L. J._Simpson (Liberal. Simcoe Centre) demanded a retraction forthwith. and the Minister conceded that he did not mean to refer to the member as a Communist. This and the humorous irony of W. E. N. Sinclair. Liberal House Leader. when he referred to the trouble Premier Henry is having with respect to the leadership of the Con- servative Party in the Province pro- vided the highlights of the wind-up of the Budget debate. Amendment Proposed. . Hon. Harry C. Nixon. Progressive Leader. renewed his attack on Cabinet Ministers holding directorates on com- panies. and declared his intention of moving an amendment to the Com- missions Act. so that neither Right Hon. Arthur Meighen nor any one else might sit on a Commission and retain a directorate. In a straight Government-Opposi- tion division. the motion ot P. W. Elliott (Liberal. Bruce. North) censur- ing the Government for its failure to balance the Budget was lost by a vote ot " to 20. thus bringing to an atheist close the Budget debate. Mr. Finlayson closed the case for the Gov- ernment utter Mr Sinclair and Mr Nixon and concluded. Night Session Planned. Tonight there will be a night ses- sion. Premier Henry stated. and Gov- ernment and public bills will have the rifht of way. after which the House will 3) into Committee ot Supply to take up the estimates tor the year as brought down in the Budget. . Mr. Finlayson got into hot water early in his address when he suggest- ed that members of the Liberal Party in the Home belonged to the "Rus- sian" group of the Liberal Party. "Yes. I would even say the Commu- nist group ot the Liberal Party." he added. Dr. L. J. Simpson tLiberal. Simcoeg Centre). who has crossed swords with:' the Minister ot Lands and Forests? previously this session. was on his teet) in I tlash. 1 Mr. Finlayson had been twining Mr. Nixon with regard to his association with the Hepburn Liberals. "He has now crossed all his bridges and burned them behind him. He is now a tol- lower of the Russian group ot the Liberal Party. I would even go so tar as to say Communist group. And of all the Liberal members in this House. only one has had the tcmerity to stand up and declare his support ot the Aussitut-Gommupist group." _ -iir. Simpson. in paFticitiating in the debate on the motion to adopt the Speech from the Throne. had come I Dr. Simpson-d am loyal to my House Leader. I stated that in the House last year. and it, still goes. Mr. Finlayson-What has happened 'sincc then? Dr. Birtvpson--a am still loyal. l, Mr. Pln1tunson---'ro whom? Mr. Hep- [burn or Mr. Sinclair? l Dr. Simpson-To both. And per- |haps the Minister might state where l he will stand next week. It he going ie,'., be loyal to his Leader or is he .going to have a party ot his own' Manny AtBrmed. i Mr. Sinclair congratulated Mr. {Henry on his Budget. address. re- 'marking that it was a difficult job 'at any time. and doubly hard this ',year. "The Prime Minister, although l, not well, undertook the task. It was [his Government's Budget and he as- :sumcd the Cesponmthiicy. it war a I Budget which would stagger a strong man." "The Prime Minister referred to r the freedom ot the Opposition. We "have a freedom, it is true. But we also hare our responsibilities. We are representatives of the people, at any rate until the redistribution bill takes effect, and we must assume our responsibility. That is to criticize where we are Justified and to make suggestions where we can do better." out detinitely in support of Mr. Hep- burn, and he considered Mr. Finlay- son's remarks to pertain to him. "If the member is referring to me I would ask him to retract that statement at once." " repeat the statement. He gets up and acknowledges that he. ot all the Liberal group, was the only one with the boldness to get up and say that he was a member ot the Rus- sian group ct the Liberal Party," said Mr. Finlayson. "You said Communist," retorted Dr. Simpson. "I ask you to retract." Mr. Pinlayson--1 didn't refer to you as a Communist. I wouldn't refer to my frimd as a Communist. He hasn't gone that tar yet. Crossfire Over Leadership'. "I haven't gone so {at as you have," regqmgd pr. Singgsgrx. Mr. Finlayson-Well, you are swing- ing well to the Leig. You are not loyal toyour House Leader. Mr. Pim'ayson---'here is only one ligdershlp and only one party on this s c. Dr. simpson-But is he going to tt'llyPy.,rilo he 19 gains to be loyal to? Mr. Pinla.vson--We are always loyal. There may be a little disquietude sometimes. but we are always loyal. The Minister then challenged the Liberal members to stand up and say thov were followers of Mr. Hepburn. T. P. Murray (leeral. Renfrew South) accepted the challenge. and stated that when Mr. Hepburn was chosen Leader, he had told him that he would be a loyal supporter. "And I am not a. Russian, either; I am Irish." Budget Presentation. The Liberal House Leader reverted to his ironic role when he took up the matter of Hydro salaries. "There were some questions on the order paper to which we did not get answer.» it being stated that it was not in the public interest." "Yet the wage bill ot the Hydro was $6,270,102. They said this amount was distributed in wages. I like that term. It is better than 'paying' wages. It is more like the Oxford a'roup---a sort of sharing. But who pays this money? The people who use light and power pay it. Are these people not inter- ested?" "The Ammmission laments erm- clsm. Yet it abuses those who criti- ciae, and I have had my share ot it in my time. If you want trouble. Just hitch onto a Hydro pole, and you iii', have them on your tail. Yet it gives no information." Apvi I 5 Paid His Worth. "If Mr. Gaby is worth $40,000 a year to the Hydro, then he should have it. It he gets $40,000, it shows hls standing. He should be proud to command such a salary. But the Government thinks it is none of our business. The Hydro should not hesitate to print the figures. If Mr. Pope is worth $30,000 a year he should have it. He should be paid what he is worth. A man should be proud to get that much and to let the people know." "If Mr. Lucas is worth $30,000 a year, he should have it. He would be the admiration ot all lawyers. It is no mean accomplishment, for a lawyer to be worth $30,000 a year. If the present Attorney-General decides to quit politics, then I hope than he will grab off a $30,000 a year salary." Smiles and applause also greeted the above remarks. "The public should know that recognition is given for service. They should know what supermen we have. But, it they are only getting $2,500 a year, possibly their salaries should not be published. That would be too mean tor anything. If a man doesn't get more than $2,500, he shouldn't have hls name published. It would not be fair to let the public know that they are so poorly paid." "If Mr. Hogg is getting $30,000 a year. then he should not he ashamed of it. A man cannot get that unless he is a super-engineer. And Mr. Bran- don, Mr. Jettrye, Mr. Robertson, Don Carlos. Plerdon. Davidson and Dobson are getting big pieces of this distribu- tion." he said, referring to a $25,000 flgure tor Mr. Brandon and $20.000 for the others. "I would think that the Juniors would be rather jealous ot these amounts." "Their salaries are paid by the people, but the people cannot know their salaries," continued Mr. Sinclair in a more serious tone. "There is no other cases of employees taking what they want and the payer not know- ing. These men stand in a unique position. Their friends pay them with the people's money. They tell the people it is none of their business what they are paid. This Legislature has allowed this." No Parallel, He Claims. "Go where you will, there is no parallel. It is not, British, and surely our code ot ethics does not condone this. It is an intolerable situation. No other country would allow it. No private company could do it, because the shareholders would rebel. Yet the great public ownership scheme ot On- tario can do it. The people, what have they to say? They are told it is none ot their business." Turning to the Budget proper, Mr. Sinclair said: "The Budget has come to be regarded here as a statement. of ordinary receipts and expenditures. The wrong idea has grown up. We have had ten deficits in the last thir- teen years, and there has been very improper budgeting. These deficits have increased our debt by nearly $40.000,000, and they are costing us $2.00t),000 a year in interest." "The seriousness of the situation can be Sten in these figures. What should a budget be? It should be a survey of possible estimated revenue and an expenditure within that rev- enue. The family budget has to be within its income. The municipal budget has to be within its income. Then why should a Government not balance its budget? It should-and it should live within it. _ A "Unbalanced budgets are bad financing. and this has become a habit in Ontario. And an casy my out has been found. to borrow the balance. In other words we pay or- dinary expenses out of capital, and it should never be done. Yet it has been done to the extent of $40,000,000 in thirteen years, or an average of $3.- 000.000 a year. In other words, let us buy Fhat we can pay tor. - "Tliis is more than" éver necessary at the present time than when rev-