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l At the conclusion of Mr. Humph-- lries's evidence Mr. McCaughrin again rose to question. "It looks to me," he said, "as if all this correspondence is irrelevant, as my charge is that Gover tried :o buy me out for $2,000." At the cutset, Mr. McCaughrin, in his evidence, referred to a meeting with Mr. Finlayson at the Y.M.C.A., in Orillia, on Nov. 11, 1933. "I went upstairs, side by side with Mr. Fin-- layson, and I said to him: 'What is all this nonsense that is going round the Department of the Attorney--Gen-- eral, regarding my being asked to re-- sign?" tesificd the ex--Magistrate. "I said, 'It has becn whispered that such is the case.' Mr. Finlayson, in reply, said: 'They are trying to put in a sysiem of economy.' But I said, as I remsmber it, 'Why don't you siart with some of the leaders, and the | higher--paid oificials?'" ! Mr. Macaulay--You do not mention : that in the statement made on paper. \ Y¥You say Mr. Pinlayson called you out ments showed he had been appointed in 1927, with jurisdiction in Orillia and sections of Simcoe and Ontario Counties, at a salary of $1,500 a year. Later he had asked for a $200 annual allowance for clerical help and rent. . From the Town Council of Orillia had been received a complaint asking m'u McCaughrin's removal and ment. A. N. Middleton of the department had reported that Mr. McCaughrin "was not what could be called a good Policc Magistrate; he doesn't seem diplomatic, and repre-- sentative citizens of the municipality are up in arms." Further complaints were received in 1929. Next year the Magistrate's jur-- isdiction was reduced following Crown Attorney McGibbon's complaint. _ In 1933 his remaining jurisdiction in On-- tario County was taken from him. _ e 0 mCV C _ He then told of a meeting with Mr. | Gover and Mr. Finlayson in Toronto. | After a meeting at the City Hall in ' connection with the Magistrates' As-- ; sociation, --Mr. McCaughlin related how he and Mr. Gover had gone to Parliament Buildings to see Mr. Fin-- layson. "It was there I got the shock of my life," exclaimed Mr. McCaugh-- rin, amid laughter. "Mr., Finlayson not only dropped all reference to the ss.oooma:bcthmgmbeomndget but said to Mr. Gover and myseli, 'You fellows get togother and come Ito some arrangement.' _ Mr. Gover | said, 'I can give you $1,500" I said, Mr. HMumphries placed on record the Government papers concerning Mr. MeCaughrin's record. These docu-- Record in Office. Colonel Denison replied that com-- plaints had been received from the Town of Orillia, from the "two Browns"--Mayor and Police Commis-- sioner--and from the ordinary "razz-- ing" of citizens about their Police Magistrate. "As to my ability?" "YQS." "Can you cite one case?" Coloncel Denison was silent. "I have the confidence of the people of Orillia," affirmed Mr. Mc-- Asks About Rumors. of t let Mr. McCaughrin go on wWilr Nis statement. Mr. McCaughrin siatéd that Mr. Finlayson had said that he thought that he (McCaughrin)» would got $3,-- 000. "Oh, no, I wou'd want $4,000. I said that jocularly," continued Mr. McCaughrin. Mr. Macaulay--It was noit enough. Mr. McCrea----What did you think Mr. Finlayson was referring to? . Mr. McCaughrin--It began to dawn on me it might be some remuneri: tion. Mr. McCrea--For what? A.--For the small sa'ary I had been receiving. Letter From Minister. Procecding, he told of having re-- ceived a letter from Mr. Finlayson, stating, "I think I have made some progreas." _ _ S ce *k 'Nothing doing.'" Mr. Macaulay--Not enough. This concluded the pre--lunch Mr. the room. A.--Yes, but I can-- I would suggest you brin go on with his ses» Mr. McCaughrin--I was not Ss6,\. ous. I could have said "No," but I didn't. I wanted to draw some more fire. Then Gover said, "I will give you' $2,000." _ Then, without further ado, Mr. Finlayson took one end of the table and Gover the opposite and I took the centre, and Mr. Finlayson, in his eloquent phraseology, dictated the terms of the bargain. 'That is the God's truth. 'That is the Irish way of putting it. "You Fellows Get Together." Continuing. Mr. McCaughrin _ re-- iterated the statement, "Mr. Finlayson absolutely said, 'You fellows get to-- gether and come to some conclusion.' That was the moment, I aociged in my own mind, that Mr. Pinlayson was dropping all responsibility of the Gov-- ernment and putting it on Mr. Gover, who was going to buy my position. So, after Mr. Gover had signed this agree-- ment, I never read it over. He did not ask me to sign, but I observed this, that 'I won't have anything to do with this propasition unless the Attorney--General, Colonel Price, has looked it over,' and I was firmly of the belief and the conviction that Colonel Price would not endorse and put through an Order--in--Council covering been told he would get his copy of the agreement, but he had never received it. He also admitted, when question-- ed by Mr. Macaulay, that he had sign-- ed a resignation. He also admitted that the resignation had been signed the same day that the agreement had l&een ndsrawn up--Saturday afternoon, ov. 25. "I recall it by an important m ._=ag of the executive of the Magistrates of Ontario," declared the ex--Magistrate. "Well, then, when I went home that night I said: 'This is the most shock-- ing proposition that was ever handed to me in my life,' and I wrote a pretty sarcastic letter to Mr. Price, dated the second day of December." a deal of that nature." Mr. McCaughrin stated that he had Mr. Macaulay--That was after. Mr. McCrea--You got home that night--Saturday, Nov. 25--and that night thought it was a shocking a{-- fair. You wrote to Mr. Price. What was the letter you wrote to Mr. Price dated? A.--The second of December. Mr. Macaulay--You did not write after you got home that day? A.-- No. Questioned About "Shock." Mr. McCaughrin was closely ques-- tioned by several members of the com-- mittee concerning "the shock" he had experienced, and the fact that he had not written for a week. "It grew worse each day," warmly returned Mr. McCaughrin, referring to "the shock." Mr. Macaulay--It did not get to a height until the second of December. In the letter, which was read by Mr. McCrea, reference was made to the "$3,000 for 1y giving up my position as Magistrate." "I can truthfully say," the letter read at another point. "that I have never received money that I have not honestly earned. I have never violated my citizenship, politically or otherwise." According to the letter, Mr. McCaughrin had also asked for the return of his rasignation, and expressed a desire to retain the office for a time. Making a correction in his testi-- mony, Mr. McCaughrin stated that he had written to Mr. Price and a a copy of the letter had been sent to Mr. Finlayson. He told of Mr. Fin-- layson phoning him the following day and saying: "What the -------- is the matter with you?" or words to that effect. Mr. Finlayson had also asked him if he would like to meet Mr. Price, and Mr. McCaughrin stated that he would appreciate an inter-- view. Mr. McCaughrin--I went down to gée Mr. Price. I went in. Mr. -- McCaughrin--However, Mr. Price seemed very displeased with this letter--very, very displeased. "Now," he said, "this letter would be damaging for the department," for I used very caustic language, Would Mr. Macaulay--What was the date? A.--I am not sure, but one of the letters will be here. e brua.\'\ 10 weoek | Mr. Macaulay--Yes, if you can re-- | member it. ' _ Mr. McCaughrin--Mr. Price said to . me: "I want you to destroy that letter and I will destroy my copy.and I will 'ask Mr. Finlayson to dGdestroy his." That is what he said to me on that oecasion. Of course, I did not de-- stroy my letter. At another point, Mr. McCaughrin 'asked if he could refer to the late Mr. Bayly, former Deputy Attorney-- | General of Ontario. you like tOo said to me? Finally, Mr. McCrea asked Mr McCaughrin what he had said to Mr. ' Bayly. | The former Magistrate told of hav-- ing a discussion with Mr. Bayly, concerning the $2,000, the resigna tion and the possibility of being al ' lowed to carry on his duties as Magis-- | trate for six months longer. Whil | he could, not promise anything def | inite, Mr. Bayly, according to Mr McCaughrin, had thought he coul 'prcmise the six months' propositio i and the return of the resignation ~"There was nothing definite abou Mr. Bayly, and I concluded he the idea I had this declaration (th affidavit) in my pocket," stated Mr McCaughrin. "I did not have scrap of paper except my card cas and watch." Permission to Release. _Mr. McCaulay pointed out that Mr. Bayly was dead and could not give evidence for himself. Mr. Heighington also objected to Mr. Bayly's nams being introduced, and Mr. McCrea pointed out the need of having corrcborative evidence. | Mr. McCaughrin told of leaving Mr Bayly and then notifying Mr. Harrj Johnson that he had his permissior to release his declaration. _ Mr. McCrea--The declaration w in existence at that time? A.--Yes In the safe of The Globe office. Mr. McCrea--They had to get your o.k. to release before publishing? A. --Absclutely. ¥> _ d Mr. Macaulay--When you were 1 Mr. Bayly's office you did not havy the declaration with you. Where wa it? A--It was in the safe at Th Globe office. Mr. Macaulay--When did you go te The Globe? A.--That afternoon. To Fortify Himself. Questioned further, Mr. McCaugh-- rin declared, "I wanted to fortify my self with this declaration if I did no get a fair deal with the Attorney-- General's office. I would go back and let the public know exactly what transpired." Replying to another question, he stated that he had met Mr. Harry Johnson at George McLean's office in Orillia the night the declaration was drawn up. I gave the details, and left it to Mr. Johnson to make up these contents," stated Mr. McCaugh-- tin. "Who took the affidavit, in the first place, to The Globe office, you or Harry Johnson? A.--Well, I brought it down, and left it with Harry John-- son, and I went up to see Mr. Bayly. Q--How did you know it was in The Globe office? A.--Because I went in with Harry Johnson to The Globe that morning. @Q.--Whom did you see that morn-- ing? A.--The only one I recall was the Business Manager of The Globe, who is 111. oo e Mr. McCrea--Harry Anderson. DiG you tell him the story. A.--Well, in a way. Harry Johnson read that dec-- laration. I talked it over with him." Mr. McCaughrin admitted that Mr. Roebuck had come into the office while they were talking, but that he remained only a short time. i He denied the suggestion made by Mr. Murphy that Mr. Johnson had promised him (McCaughrin) a perma-- nent appointment if the Liberal Party got into power. Asked if he had anything further to add. Mr. McCaughrin said: "Nothing more than that I firmly believe that this offer of $2,000 was a bribe to get my position." At one point Mr. McCrea injected, "Is was really a question of terms." "No," retorted Mr. McCaughrin, "if they had offered me $10,000 I would have absolutely refused." have what Colonel Price