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"We an told that the Abltlhl aa- sets are not worth the bonded debt. Who says so? ts It Mr. Ripley, the head ot the syndicate which sold the securities to the value ot 8176.- 000.000 to the public not many years ago? Mr. J. P. Ripley has been a recent visitor to the Parliament Buildings. "No matter what any one else may say. he has a moral obligation to try and protect the preferred shareholders who relied on his as- Minutes. The time has come for this and every other legislative body to say when the people buy stock upon a prospectus that they can Irely on the prospectus. or it not, "If there ls one man in the whole world who has no right to come to the Parliament Buildings. with an agreement which deprives the Junior security holders of their rights. it is Mr. Ripley." He declared that it the govern- ment wished to exercise its right to protect the public. it would tell Mr. Ripley to go back and to do something for the people from whom he took 825000000. "No, behind closed doors. the Gov- ernment passes the Order-in-Council. Will the Minister (Mr. Heenan) tell me that Ripley's presence In Toronto last Tuesday had nothing to do with the Order-in-Council on Friday? Will any one on the side of the Govern- ment suggest that the plan referred to us is not the Ripley plan T' Colonel Drew saw extreme danger in the power conferred upon the Minister of Lands and Forests under sections of the Forest Resources Regulation Act. "which should never have been conferred on any depart. ment of government." He claimed there was not under the receivership any loss of dues to the government. Not one rent, he said. was owing to the treasury. He argued, in refutation of a claim in the Premier's statement. there was no reason to believe that one more man would be employed or one more pound ot paper produced by taking is out of receivership. "Why?" he asked. "Beeause there is overproduction in this and other companies. There has been nothing given here as a reason for the sud- den concern ot the government to speed up settlement. If there is a reason. why doesn't the government notify the committees representing the investors and then insist that some agreement be made within a reasonable length of time. "To suggest it Is necessary to go through this procedure and Irene out the Junior security holders-to give them no rights whatever-is an Insult to this House and to the in- vestors at London and New York markets. He urged the Cabinet to take a firm stand and not allow the man "responsible for having deprived the public to come here and suggest another plan." He pleaded that the security holders be given some rights. "I have." he continued. "yet to find any reason for the Premier's statement in the House. What is the urgency? Why is the government so concerned about the company be- ing in receivership?" Ur!" Firm Stand. "Upon the recommendation of the other depreciatory changes had oc- Minister." he explained. "an Order. curred with the passing of the years. in-Councll may at any time be pass. Various attempts, he said, had ed 'to increase or reduce the size of been made to reorganize the com- the area or areas included in any pany after it had gone into receivers license, lease. concession. agreement ship. The move made by the gov- or arrangement.' ernment through its Judicature Act "The Minister of Lands and For ot1937 had ended. he said, in " com- ests. the Car of our Northern re plete fiasco." Even "to the sus- sources. is answerable to an Order. picious mind" ot the Opposition in-Councll and not to this House. leader. said the Premier, it should The most iniquitous things could be be quite apparent that to carry any done under that provision without plan .of reorganization through to the House knowing anything about completion, the natural resources of them. That is not putting a mere the province would have to be made gun at the head ot the companies. available tor mill operation. And "-3 putting acomplete arsenal.'rhey the company would have to have the trttverrtment's assurance of that -- - atmilattllity. The only thing to that some one must be held an. countable tor it," said Colonel Drew. "re completely at the mercy of the 'Minister and the Cabinet." Colonel Drew warned that he came now to his main criticism. He had read in the press that the prices of the" bonds had fluctuated alter the Premier made his statement. "Those who are charged with the responsibility of the control of the forest resources under this *Fascist act. those who are charged leth responsibility. should remem- ber what happened in the country 'seventeen years ago. Yes, I know the government of the day was Conservative. Let me anticipate, it was not a Liberal government which "Weeks ago. before the Order-m- Council was passtm, it had been talked about in the honorable Min. ister's department. and any one in the know about it could have made a killing on the market," he charged. Recalls " Years Ago. He urged the cabinet. with its wide powers to exercise extreme caution on the matter. Judging from the indictment levelled against the government by the Opposition leader it was quite evident, said Mr. Hepburn. that Colonel Drew was "ot a suspicious mind." What was more apparent, he claimed. was that Colonel Drew was not conversant at all with the facts at the Ahitibi situation. True, he said. there had been fluctuations in the bond market as Colonel Drew had argued. The government's pur- pose in stepping in had been pri- marily to end that sort of fluctua- tion. He didn't know anything about the company prospectus which the Opposition leader had "waved so dramatically in the air." It might be that the assets of the company were worth considerably more in 1928. when the prospectus was issued, than now. war in power. Another powerful paper group was sold under the hammer as you contemplate selling this group. the Riordan interests to Graustein." He charged that what was done in that instance "hedevtlled the paper interests in this country for many years." He declared "Ripley was going to try to be the new paper king." rights in the ordinary way. The function of government is to see that tho natural resources are not exploited. not to say which plan is to be adopted." The Sturgeon Falls and Espanola plants had shut down, he said, and other depreciatory changes had oc- curred with the passing of the years. Before listening to the Ripley plan. "which would make him the. dictator ot the paper industry," said Colonel Drew, the cabinet would be advised to consider well the promises ot the original pros- pectus. which he had sponsored. "I am against government inter- ference in business beyond the absolute minimum," continued Colonel Drew. "But we are not dealing with an ordinary company. We are dealing with a company under the control of an Order-in- Council passed hy the Premier and his colleagues on the advice of the Minister of Lands and Forests. "t suggest there should be no more interference with the rights of the shareholders hy this govern- ment. The harm has been done so far by the Premier's statement of Friday. Let them work out their MARCH 14 which the government, he said, had committed itself was the turning over of timber to carry on oper- ation, if and when reorganization had been satisfactorily completed. "Now, Mr. Speaker," tie - Gid, "what. is there wrong with that?" Aimed to Stop Rumors. The government had made the statement of which Colonel Drew had complained. he said, to stop everlasting rumors, to clarify the government's position, and to aid in any reorganization of the com- pany that might start idle wheels turning attain, and provide gainful employment. the statement," said he. "Nothing in it. to he suspicious about. I depre- cate to the fullest extent the sort of innuendoes the Leader of the Op. position packed into his address. I hope he doesn't continue such tae. tics in this House. I trust he is a bigger man than he has shown this afternoon." There wasn't a single construe- tive note in Colonel Drew's address, the Premier declared. Neither Mr. Ripley nor any one else connected with the interests involved in the attempted reorganization, he said, had obtained his opinions on the situation. He had positively refused, ho said, to see any of the negotiat- ing interests for fear that they might carry away from a confer- r'nt'e unfounded and inaccurate im- pressions as to the government's position. "Let the Leader of the Opposition take his attitude of innuendoes," he said. "The government has kept its skirts clean In this affair and is going to keep them clean. There is nothing wrong. And I throw the nasty innuendoes back in the teeth of tho honorable member who made them." Mr. Hepburn asked Attorney-Gen- eral Conant to state the govern- ment's legal position in the situa- tion. "Because if there is anything wrong," he said, "I want to hear about it." Mr. Conant, when it was sug- gested by Mr. Macaulay the Mora- torium Act's terms might be ap- plied to the situation, as they may he to ordinary mortgage proreetG ings, declared the cases were not comparable. The act. he said, did not attempt to deal with the claims of priority securities holders. He pointed out to Colonel Drew that. his citations of the company's assets were no guide to present-day values. "Every one knows condi- tions are vastly different today," he said. The Opposition, he claimed, in suggesting the Hepburn govern- ment was taking sides in the issue, "wero drawing upon their imagina- tions." "What proposal is referred to in the Order-in-Council if it is not the Ripley plan ?" asked cyoneletr. "I am coming to that," replied the Minister, as he emphasized that the Government, in committing itself under the terms of the original hands. "has some right to a prior claim on the assets of the company and has a right to be paid in any scheme in the event of it being sold or foreclosed." "There was nothing sinister in The Government, he declared. said no more than that these rights should he continued under any re. organization of the company. He