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Nt seems to be difficult for the' Premier to rise to a point of order or anything else without his spleen getting the better of him sooner or later," he said scathingly. "We will accept full responsibility for what is said in this House. but not " Ottawa-and you are not always as close to Ottawa as you appear today." Opposition Leader Drew sternly reprimanded the Premier for his statement. What started as a protest against the young Conservative member's statement that thousands of Cana- dians had died of malnutrition quickly developed into more per- none] recriminations when Premier Hepburn referred to Mr. Massey Scornfully as "that Bible preacher." "You have to consider whore that statement comes from." the Premier said. "it was made in the House of Commons by that Bible preacher. The kind of talk we are hearing from our friends across the way I: what is breaking down the morale of our people." Drew Chldee Hepburn. Goldwin Elsie (Con.. Woodbine) brought the Massey reference he- tore the House a few minutes later when he added his criticism of Mr. Hepburn's utterance. "The point I'm objecting to," he said. "is that the Premier says he is not surprised at Mr. Massey's statement because he ts a Bible teacher." Introduced into the discussions by Hon. Eric Cross in reference to a statement made in the House of Commons at Ottawa. the name of Denton Massey was bandied amass the floor of the Ontario Legislature In a half-dozen exchanges of biting debate before orders of the day were called yesterday. Check Fails fo Support 'Thousands Died' Claim; Hepburn Raps Massey "I have heard Mr. Massey loc- turing to his Bible class." Mr. Hepburn corrected. "Therefore I am not surprised at anything he might say either at his Bible class or any- where else." "No more in becoming than your reference to the head of the York Bible Class as 'Bible preacher,' " retored Mr. Henry. "Did you ever hear any of his Bible lectures?" demanded the Premier. 'at you had, you wouldn't take exception to my remark. They sound more like burlesque." "I think it's very lll becoming of the honorable member to make - charges without naming names," sold the Premier. "It would be better lt there were more Bible preachers and fewer Bible scatters," observed Mr. mule. The issue flared a third time during a stormy passage of words between Premier Hepburn and George Henry tCon.. York South) on the question of succession duties collections. In frank condemnation of what he called the Ontario Legislature" failure during the past tour years to give adequate attention to peru sonal things. es apart from ma- terial legislation, Ian T. Strachan, Liberal Whip. yesterday joined Conservative pleas in the House for a full-dress debate on unemploy- ment. CAN BE TALKED ON ESTIMATES. SAYS HEPBURN Harassed by persistent sniping from the Conservative benches. Premier Hepburn, in a final state- ment, told the Opposition: "in I few days the estimates on the De.. [partment of Welfare will be !brought down and it will give my ' honorable friends the field day they are looking for." STRACHAN IS CRITICAU The demand for a specific de- hate period on unemployment was first voiced in a budget address by W. J. Stewart Icon., Parkdale). It was repeated yesterday hy Leopold Macaulay Icon., South York), who claimed the matter should be dis- cussed not from the standpoint of the Minister of Welfare, but of hu- man need. Rising to hack the suggestion, the Liberal Whip tToronto-St. George) emphasized that day after day he received letters from people asking him to help them secure the Jobs they were unable to secure for themselves. Not Interested In Hydro. "These people don't care what the Campbell report or any other report is. They are not Interested in how much power is developed by Hydro. What they are interested in is getting Jobs for themselves. The time has come for a full-dress de. bate to see if we can't do some- thing for the poor people who can't get Jobs for themselves." The introduction of the issue came shortly after the House opened when Hon. Erie Cross, Minister of Welfare. rose to deny a statement made Thursday in the. House at Commons by Denton M a s s e y (Com. Toronto-Green- wood). He quoted Mr. Massey as having said that thousands of Canao dian Jobless had died as the result of exposure, starvation and the failure of the government to pro. vide for them. l J. Sfewart Asks Full Dress Debafe on Unemployment; Macaulay Would Discuss Angle of Human Needs APRIL 15 No Starvation In Ontario. "So far as Ontario and the Do. partment of Welfare are concerned. there is no record of any kind of any person having died as the re- sult of starvation in Ontario,' said Mr. Cross. G. C. Elgie (Toronto-Woodbine) claimed that if the unemployed could not be elected on March 31 it was equally true ot_April15. G. H. Dunbar Ion., Ottawa South) pointed out there was re- ported last winter the case of a man in Nipissing who had died ot starvation. Mr. Cross replied that investigation had showed the man had died as a result of a mental derangement and that there was food in the house at the t_ime. - William Duckworth (Con.. To- ronto-Dovercourt) asked the minis- try if members did not consider $8.40 in food allowance for four adults for fourteen days was not close to a starvation basis. Members of the medical profes- sion had not reported a single case of malnutrition, Mr. Cross replied. "I am convinced," he added, "that the food provisions are adequate and in proper relation to wages paid in the particular districts." Mr. Macaulay again asked the min- ister for a statement of department policy in relation to unemployed in York Township, who by reason of outdoor tasks on street cleaning and garbage collection have been given a schedule 35 per cent above the Campbell report. He pointed out a department order had reduced the scale to 25 per cent. Letter From Women's Body. Mr. Cross said the township coun- cil had passed a resolution oppos. ing the levying of an additional two mills upon the ratepayers to bring the relief rate up to the previous 35 per cent plus basis. The depart- ment took the view, he said, that since the township contributed but 16 per cent of its relief levy. the government could not contribute to the higher relief scale while bore at the same time a heavy / ' portion of relief costs. ' .