i Chaplain, Declaring | He Received Money Through { Mails for Conviet, (Continued from Monday.) Ra 5 : That is an indica- of a t mind. My, . friend Worl ary bard, I am Ya 'work that out. 1 will leave him to Pouder . over that and see if he can work out another. * Mr. Gauvreat: [You have been Stronger in making your point as far as humanity is concerned than you have been in regard to religion. Mr. Edwards: Well, 1 am more a b itarian than a churchman. "A guard: who was discharged, makes a charge of purjury arising out of a dispute in the year 189%, The evi adduced to sustain this sharge was this witness' uncorrobor- ted recollection of a verbal state {ment by the deputy." Refused Gorroboration. - ' Uncorrohorated, why ? Because the refused to allow any evi Phone 76. 841-3 Princess St, Prompt Delivery. PHONR 1473 Get Prices From David Marshall Sli, Ce dence to be givem in corroboration. In that comneetion 1 want to say something which was stated before the commission, and which does not Labpear. in- the report, becguwe the fchaitman of the commission instruct- fod the stenographer mot to take it down and requested the press not to publish it. Major Hughes, in the course of his evidence before the commission, stated in t presence of the three commissionéts, the de- puty warden, 'and eight or tem other Persons that, if the deputy warden Were to receive a- sentemcé of three years for every charge of perjury which Major Hughes could prove against him, he, the deputy® warden, would spend the rest of his days be- hind prison bars. That is also the opinion of one of the inspectors in regard to the deputy warden. 'This Statement was made by Major Hugh. es under 'oath in the course of his evidence.' Therefore 1 think 1 am justified in making that atatement here, because of the.fact that I pre farred & charge against the deputy warden and was prevented by the commissioners from adducing evi dence in support of my charge. It is certainly curious that the - deputy warden would lie down under a charge of this kind made by Major Hughes and one -of the 'othet wit- | vesses, ex-Guard Patterson. The de puty warden was present when both gentlenten made the statement, but he has not yet taken steps to prose- cute either of them. Therefore, I do mot think the general public will have very much confidence in a man. of that chargeter, .who is practically in control of the institution. In regard to the charge of neglect of duty resulting in attempts to es- cape, Dr. Platt says: "A convict designated as dang and marked for special care escaped under ciroumstances which force one te the: comelusion that wellknown, important and imperative duties were | A bite of this ands taste of has, ofl day. tong, dulls the appetite and wenieoms the digestion. BN ro Ar ~ br etarrnd Ss Tat oT dlc either neglected or performed in a oul- pably perfunctory manner." He is referring to the escape of Chartrand, who got out in the mid- dle of the night. The bars of his J cell door were Gut and paper bars were substituted, He bad a dummy in his cell. He had constructed a rope ladder with hooks on it to fix to the wall, if he succeeded in got- ting out of the yard, and the bars in the corndor window, were also eut. Sith: was on night duty and might be respomsible for not no detected the cutting of the Lars of the cell door; hut the bars n the window could not have been cut at might, because were all locked up, and therefore the hars must have been cut in the day time. A comvict orderly, who has since died, stated, that the bars oi the corridor window were cut by him in the day time while Guard McCon- ville was asleep. Im regard to, that particular part of the prison, who performed the duties there? The suswer is Smith and McConville. What is the public record of these two men? Smith was a new man who had been only for a short time there, and who had fourleam times been reprimanded - for neglect. of daty. Two of these occasions weve on Jan. 26th and Jan. 28th. 1912, and this escape took place on March 4th. I say there was a lack of judgment on the part of the deputy warden in assigning to a man of that kind the charge of a ward where an especially dangerous convict was confined. Who was the other man on duty? . The i other man was McConville, a man who had suspended for drunk: enness and been reinstated De- cause the hon. rember for Kingston, Hom. Williamt Harty, insisted that he [whould be brought back and put on duty. The man who inted these guards to their positiogs was the deputy wardem. And 1 the record of these two mei is proof that the deputy warden did not exercise care i t in appoint- ing them to ition he did a point them to. [ would ask | sinister to consider one or two | things that the commission did not follow up snd » Smith was called and examined in regard N that notice was put up in a office. Baia' 4 Mr. Bickerdike : You da not blame him for that ? Wy Edwards : 1 suppose the honor- gentleman does noi, anyway. Why was not the circulation of the Ayles- worth jelegran to' Harty followed up? Why did irman deal with God- Kin so severely in regard to his age and i the fact brought out mn Dr. Phelan's evidence that there were othérs who Misstled taeir age when they sought t appointment as guards, ny also ' the fact that there were ten or twelve guards on duty rel gardless of the fact that they were re lated to ope another, which is con- trary to the regulations? Why did the commissioners entirely ignore the evidence of Dr, Phelan that the regu. lation in that regard had been i Y Why did they not follow up the evidence that O'Leary 'knew of the tubbing ? It was sworn that this was done under the direc- tion of the deputy warden or surgeon. Why did they not follow up the sworn statements in regard to drinking by O'Leary and the drunkenness of O'Dris- coll and Doyle ? Why was Chapman, who had broken his parole, according to his own admission, allowed to go and nothing done ?. Why does the commission, entirely "ignore the false evidence of Rose in regard to Ingle dew ? Ingledéw was a guard who was charged with certain offences, and one of the convicts, a man named Rose, was brought to give evidence. A day or so afterwards he confessed to Rev. Mr. Dobbs, Protestant chaplain, that his evidence against Ingledew was a frame-up between himseli and the hos- the prisoners | | s¥stem. sure pital overseer, Wilson. 'I'his came to my ears, and Rose repeated to me and the warden the confession that he had made. When the commisfion met again | stated the fact to them that Rose had declared his former evidence against. logledew was false and a frame-up between him and Wilson. | dertainly expected that the commis. sion would recall Rose in regard to that matter. bat they refused to do 80. And what reason, do you think, the chajrman gave ? His reason was: If we bring him up on that matter it would mean a charge of perjury against him. But | do not see what particular difierence that could make to Rose, for he is serving a life sen- tence at the present time. 1 desire to call the attention of .the minister of justice to the fact*that not only did the chairman absolutely refuse to call Rose, who declared that he had, testi- fied falsely, but, after Rose had - con- fessed to perjuring himself, they called him on anpther matter and took _his evidence, Overestimated Their Value. That is the sort of commission you had. When I stated in this house that they were hot worth fifteen cents a day, 1 overestimated théir value. | want to ask, why were Rondale and Hodges dismissed for drinking and others not followed up ? - Let me give you a word or two in regard to that. It was brought out in the evidence that the convicts were getting money from 'outside apd were huying tobacco with it through the agency of the guards. One of the convicts, in fact more than one, made that statement. But the commissioners did not think it true. asked one of the commis- sioners to ask a convict if he had any tobacco on him, The convict, an Ltalian, said, "Sure." He pulled up bis trouser-leg, turned down his sock, and, there was half a plug of tobacco which the convict laid on the table. I'he commissioners then believed. that the convicts had got tobacco into the Penitentiary, but before that they were doubtful. They made inguiries and wrote to Ottawa to get a permit from the postmaster-gemeral to inspect the books and records in the Kingston post office. They got certain evidence implicating a certamn official of the in- stitution in that kind of business. The evidence went to show that the rela- tives of a. convict would send to that convict, through a guard, let us say, $10. 'I'he guard would take $4 or $6 and pass over the other $4 to the con- vict, and the convict would then buy tobacco gvith his $4. He was to get so many plugs for a dollar, but in- stead of getting all he would get only a. certain portion, they took a second toll out of him in that way. It was clearly established to the satisfaction of the commissioners that that sort of thing was going on. So the commis- sioners put a notice in the Kingston saying that they had certain evidence along that line and asked the uards who had been guilty of this of- ence to come forward aad confess. They said, in effect : If you come for- ward and confess you will simply lose your position; but if you do not, we have the evidence, and you will not only lose your position but be prose- cuted under the act. What happened? Two guards came forward and confessed, and lost their positions. The commis- sioners again called on those who were guilty to come forward and con- fess, intimating that otherwise they would fare very badly before they got through with them. No person came forward. Bui all. at once, though they had intimated that there were a number of thers inplicated --and. their report ssid so--every- thing along that line stopped. Why? Now, I want to say that when they stopped: investigating that sort of business they had evidence in_ their possession that money had been re- stitution, and I have seen the p of that myself. They had evidelice that money orders were received by Beware of catarrh © that AF mercury will ointments contain mercury, surely destroy the sense of smell and completely derange the ole system when enterin, it thy the mucous surfaces: uch artic! should never'be used except on prescriptions » reputable physic. jane, as the they will do 1s ten fold to the good oy can possibly de- rive from them. all's Catarrh Cure, manufactured by F. J. Cheney 2 Toledo, O., contains no mercury and is taken internally, acting directly upon the blood and mucous surfaces of the In buyin . Catarrh Cure yon ge! ne is tak. en internally and made in Toledo, Ohio, bv F. 3 Cheney & Co. Testimonials Sa by Druggists. Price 5c per bottle. Take Hall's Family Pills for consti- pation, . Co. » : For Justice. ceived' by other officials of that n for | - wa, either the hands of the in- spector | sons or of the minister Now, I am going to give you the name of that official, and the name of that efficial is the Roman Catholic chaplain of the Kingston peniten- tiary. The orders that were sent were sent to him by Mrs. McNeil, the mother of Conviet McNeil, who, I be- lieve, is one of the Stoney Mountain gang. The dates of the several orders were May 3, 1912; July 186, 1912, and January 29,1918, and the amounts were $2, $6 and $5. These money orders, I believe, are at pres- €nt in the city of Ottawa. I ask why the commissioners did not go on and investigate this mat ter. Why did they not? It can- not be stopped there, a reason must be given for those money orders be- ing sent as they were sent from Portsmouth post office to the chap- lain of the institution. These ers were obtained in the post office and are at oresent in Ottawa. r say that this commission is a farce unless it goes on ahd gives us a rea- son why that matter stopped there. Mr. Proulx: Were they addressed to the chaplain? 5 Mr. Edwards: Yes. Mr. Proulx: ' I suppose fe could draw the money if they were ad- dressed to him. Mr. Edwards: , I supose he could and I suppose he¥ did. Mr. Proulx! Did he give it to the convict? Mr. Edwards: I do not know: I was not one of the commissioners. That is a matter which I say should be investigated: I want to call the attention of my hon. friend to sec- tion 67 of the Penitentiary act, which provides a penalty of three months imprisonment for any person who gives prohibited articles to any con- vict or leaves them in any place with intent that they shall be taken by a convict. This. is the section which the two guards who were dismissed confessed having violated. That was ihe section that was held over the other guards if they did not come forward and confess having done the same thing. That was the section in regard to which I ask an investi- gation in this instance, to see if it has been violated. We are entitled to have that information. Mr, Proulx: Has the hon. mem- ber any evidence whether the orders were cashed or not? Perhaps they were returned. Mr. Edwards: The orders, as'l understand, were obtained at the post office in Portsmouth and I pre- sume they were cashed at the post office there. Mr. Devlin: Did the hon. member bring any charge before the commis- sion as to this? Mr. Edwards: No. I did not be- cayse I did not know anything about it then. I may say that I had had complaints made to me in regard to the chaplain, but from first to last I refrained from saying one word in regard to that official; and it was only after this matter came to my His predecessor in that office was a man who was liked by every person because he strictly attended to his business and confined himself to the duties of his office. 1 believe that the present chaplain has not done that. Mr. Kyte: ing? What has he been do- Chaplain Discussed. Mr. Edwards: He has interfered and intrigued and caused a good deal of the trouble that has occurred at that institution, ! Mr. Kyte: Political trouble? Mr. Edwards: Well, I think he has bad a good hand in that. He is a pronounced grit, and when you get a pronounced grit: you may look out for trouble, Mr, Devlin: Is it not a fact that Father Macdonald enjoys the repn- tation of attending strictly to his duties In connection with the peni- tentinary? Mr. Edwards: No, it is not a fact. The question is a direct one and is entitled to a direct answer. On the contrary, I am sorry to say that he enjoys a very différent reputazion with regard to performing his duti- es that he does more than perform his duties, 'tha he has been 'charged by no less a person than one of the inspectors, Inspector Hughes, - with caballing with the guards: and' formenting trouble in that institution. Mr. Proulx:-fs it not a fact that the hop. member caballed himself for Inspector Hughes? Mr. Edwardes: Not as I understand the word cabal. At all events'1 was not closeted with my hon. friend from Prescott in regard to the mdt- ter. 1 did do my utmost to 'have Inspector Hughes appointed as war- den of the institution and I am pre- pared to give good reasons for tak ing the course. Inspector Hughes was recommended by me for that position because I believed that his long years of service there in dif- ferent positions made him a very competent man for the position. Fe was recommended not only by me but by thirty or forty Conservative members of this house and - ten ov twelve in the legislature of Ontario; as. well as by four or five couaserva~ five exeeutiver in Oneario. H> had been spoken of highly in the parfors ster of justice during his term: of office. If any man. ever: had gry ids to ask for the appointment of x man to a position I' had good grounds an this case and I was pretty well ed up. You can call that it you like, bug.I do not call it that. I' understand word to mean get: ting together in little bunches talking secretly and trouble. 1 {no not go about in that way. I go straight to it. What Commissioner's Drew 1 wish to call a to pechliarities, not to a tel of 'the chair it mission. There js ample evideno to show that he ignored a 'good. attention that I mentioned his name. { mance of his duties by every mini-| She Tome ae] If 1 wigh to get a cer-| "nin point either walding or talking " 1 of evidence ol before the sroperly at Kingston. Which should be house if we are to the situadion I believe that he did because he misunderstood his or- fers. There is ohe thing, however, that 'the chairman of the commis sion did fully understand, ad that w#as how to charge for his { have not had time to go fully in- fo the detailed e¥pense account of this commission, hut I noticed that Mr. Downey drew $1,396.61 and that hig travelling expenses started from July 10, although the order in coun- cil appointing this commission was not passed until August 25 or 26. 1 oresume, however, that this date in July is accounted for by Mr. Dow- ney's having to come to Ottawa to falk matters over when his name was under consideration. 1 also no- tice that Dr. Etherington drey $1,- 373,71, and that the chief kalsomin- or, George Milnes Macdonnell, col- tected $1,501.40. In the detailed expense account of the chairman I notice some items which call for somment. He gives the dates he visited the prison farm, and the Kingston. penitentiary, and the con- sultations he had with different per- sons. He consulted with Mr. Nick'e about twenty-five times. Mr. Bickerdike: 1 suppose he did not charge for consulting with Nick- I e. Mr. Edwards: I do not think yon 'can be a lawyer or you would not have heard tell' of a lawyer who did not charge for a consultation. The chairman of the commission has ev- on got down in this expense account an item for attending divine ser- --$15 for that, I suppose. Mr. Bickerdike: Was he a man? Mr. Rdwards: No, he was just at- tending the service. Mr. J. J. Hughes: Was that one of the commissioners? Mr. Edwards: Strange as it may seem, one of the commissioners attended divine service and charged for it. J. J. Hughes: What was his name? Mr. Edwards: George Milnes Mac- donmell, K.C., chairman of the comi- mission. I can readily understand clergy- Mr. Macdonnell should attend --di- vine service after all: T = have said about him. But according to his own statement here he actually did attend, but apparently the service did not have any appreciable effect. Mr. Lemieux: Was not that the amount he put in the plate? Mr. Edwards : 1t does not say whe- ther he put anything in the plate or took anything off it. I was mot with the gentleman so I cannot give any further particulars. J. J. Hughes: The honorable gen- tleman has given us information as to tha religious persuasions of these com- missioners. what political party they belong. Mr. Edwards: | am not in a posi- tion to say positively to what polii- cal party they belong. Mr. Bickerdike: I think the honor- wble gentleman will admit that it was a tory trick to charge $15 for attend- ing divine service. ~ . Mr. Fdwards : My honerable friend must remember that for fifteen years or more all that we could do was to sit and wateh the antics of honorable gentlemen opposite; so if we were de- moralized to a certain extent there is Some little excuse for us. Of course, the surprising part of it is that he stopped at $15. Honorable gentlemen opposite dealt in much larger figures, no $15 a day would satisfy them. t do not know to what political" party these gentlemen belong, but 1 assume they were supposed to tive. Jd. J. pointed ? Mr. Edwards: On August, 25th or 26th, 1913. They were appointed after the change of government. Mr. Lemieux : My honorable friend has already said they were not worth fifteen cents a day. Mr. Edwards: I do not think they were. When I made that statement | think T yas putting rather a high fig- ure on the value of their services. If I am to regard this report in the light in which it should be regarded, that is, as the basis for intelligent action on the part of this committee with re- gard to that institution, I say their services were not worth fifteen cents a day because the report in so far as the charges I made are concerned is' misleading 'from beginning to end, and is framed in such a way that it is ut- terly impossible for this committee to form correct conclusions as to the cond ditions prevailing at Kingstoh peni- tentiary. In conclusion, {| want to say that I got into this matter in the first place, possibly through advoecat- ing Major Hughes for the wardenship. There was quite a little contest and more or less feeling about that; perhaps hecanse of that certain charges were brought to my attention which otherwise would not have been. My position was simply this: 1 felt that I would not be doing my duty after those charges had been brought to my attention if I did not lay them before the minister of justice and ask for a commission to investigate them.' it think that yet. All 1 want to see. in connection with that institution is such reforms as will give the conviet chance for his future. I do net want, and I do not expect, a convict 0 be treated as a person outside. He has to be punished. I hope that the information which the commissioners 'have presented, notionly in connection! 'with the charges I have made but the. information have a athered, rough visiting prisons, will care] i considered by the minister, and that it will result in such reforms as be conserva- Hughes : When were they ap- apes i #0 deliberdtely, and | think it was | i how surprised my hon. friend is thap Perhaps he can tell us to "lmien who areya.most illiterate and who THEM. ALum* CIENT. 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" Trust the young- sters for liking a food for its taste Sold everywthiere at 10c I J. 8, REGISTER: TTORNEY, King Bizsat, West: Toronto, Fate Eibrigs are f 8, Designs, |i frotected eveery- en years' exper- . lence. tor: % will give the convict who is unfortus nate enough' to be confined in prison 4 chance to come out a better man than he wentiini 1 firmly believe that there is some good: io every man, no matter how bad le may appear on the surface. 1 believe that in these insti- tutions we: require men of tact and judgment and superior ability, at least ni Wthe: higher offices, and {hat such [salaries should be offered as will ob' apon convicta by appeinting: to admin. istrative positions in the peni h have practically no. education what- ever. If you are going to reform the eonviet you must place-over him men ls of the institution will ] t they Raven interest in the eonvicts 1 bafjeve - hope to. haves any: reforming - infiusnne | Our Robin Hood Brand of Sour has a guarantes In good quality. every bag for